"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in message
news:eE97TSZEGHA.3384@TK2MSFTNGP12.phx.gbl...
> Vanguard wrote:
>
>> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in message
>> news:etJHlXSEGHA.1404@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>
>>> Vanguard wrote:
>>>
>>> You're a moron.
>>
>>
>> Yeah, I already knew that was coming. Big surprise. Your means of
>> "proof" got exposed. Your balloon popped.
>>
>>> I gave you two urls of the biggests computer stores chains in Spain that
>>> sell OEM software
>>
>>
>> Who says pirates have to wee tiny peddlers constantly evading prosecution
>> by using temporary Internet sites? There are hundreds if not thousands
>> of sites peddling pirated software, some even in my own country. Just
>> because they create a site and provide a business doesn't qualify that
>> they are doing legal business. The legal means of shutting down illegal
>> businesses is slow and erratic.
>>
>>> and you give me links to music and video/dvd piracy.
>>
>>
>> And software. Actually read the articles. "In 2004, the number of
>> street vendors selling pirate optical disc products has continued to
>> grow." And what did YOU get for distribution media for that software?
>> Oh, yes, we are all so confident that someone who steals music, videos,
>> and "entertainment" software would never ever steal "other" software,
>> too. Uh huh. They have all the equipment to press labelled CDs that
>> look like the legal copies but, of course, they would never use that
>> equipment to store software on those same CD blanks. Of course pirates
>> who are involved in producing fake music and video CDs and entertainment
>> software would always become morally upright when it comes to other
>> software piracy. Uh huh. I didn't realize that pirates were so select
>> in what they steal.
>>
>> There are changes coming in Spain but it doesn't seem like they did
>> anything until sometime in 2003.
>>
>>> These stores are completely legal
>>
>>
>> In Spain perhaps. But peddling 12-year old kids to pedophiles might be
>> legal in some countries but it is still wrong. Legality and morality are
>> not always in sync. Spain, Indonesia, and other countries, whether legal
>> or not within their own domain, are a pariah to the rest of the
>> international community.
>>
>>> and they get their OEMs from Microsoft who has offices in Spain.
>>
>>
>> Maybe but you don't have proof that the CDs sold from those stores
>> actually came from Microsoft. You think all pirates are some joker
>> sitting in his seller using his CD-RW drive and using a Sharpie marker to
>> label CDs to sell pirated software? Professionally produced pirated
>> software can be indistinguishable from the real thing, just like you can
>> get fake IDs that are perfect copies using even the same technology used
>> to produce the real IDs.
>>
>>> I was not pointing you to the music, videos, dvds, etc. sold on the
>>> street. So, if these computer stores are pirates, Microsoft is too.
>>
>>
>> It is impossible to pirate yourself. If you have proof that these stores
>> in Spain have a non-standard OEM contract then do so. Otherwise, you
>> have no clue as to whether the copies are legal or not. From articles by
>> Microsoft regarding Spain, Microsoft *is* attempting to stop the pirating
>> there but they also work within the law which means they are attempting
>> to change the laws there. You really think if pirates weren't producing
>> their own copies that they would buy them direct from Microsoft who could
>> shut down the supply channel in an instant?
>>
>> The fact that these stores have to go to such great lengths in an attempt
>> to prove their claim that their product is legitimate makes them
>> suspicious by that act. "Methinks thou doust protest too much" (William
>> Shakespeare). You don't have the proof as you claim. I don't, either!
>> How many legitimate sellers do you visit that have to go to such lengths
>> to proclaim their innocence? Your proof wasn't proof at all. It can be
>> damn hard if not impossible to determine if you have a legitimate copy of
>> not.
>>
>
> You're nuts. You don't know what you're talking about. APP and PCBox are
> legitimate stores. I have three XP OEMs sitting in the drawer and I know
> they are legal. The product key was good, they passed activation and WGA.
> I don't even know why I am replying to you. NO store sells retail in
> Spain. NONE. So, with you're "logic", all the stores in Spain sell pirated
> versions of XP.


No "store" sells *retail*? Well, that would explain a lot.

"Spanish police arrest 14 for Microsoft piracy"
http://www.infoworld.com/article/04/...spiracy_1.html

Yep, thar be pirates in my country, too, but I'm not the one claiming that
proof of legitimacy is simply measured by the ability to sell. It is
unusual, though, that the pirate bothers to include certificates unless they
are a huge volume pirate. Piracy works best in those countries that have
little legal, if any, deterrence against it.

Showing a store that gave you the software without any hardware is not proof
that the store complied with the OEM license. That it activates also
doesn't provide proof because the hardware isn't physically or logically
tied to the software; i.e., there is no way for the activation server to
know that the software you are activating is actually used with the
qualifying hardware that was supposed to come with it. If that were the
case, piracy using Dell, HP, and other brand-specific OEM CDs would vanish
overnight on eBay because no buyer could ever activate those CDs. Your
"proof" sucks. To be frank, I can't prove that my copy is 100% legit,
either. I cannot prove legitimacy simply because I managed to get the
software without hardware and that it activates. The activation is NOT to
ensure the OEM contract was fully complied with by the OEM supplier or that
the user got the hardware and complied with OEM license. The seller is
*supposed* to bundle the OEM software with hardware, and obviously the
seller could violate that by just giving you the OEM software.

You do NOT need the qualifying hardware to activate. There is no way for
the activation server to know that the hardware on which Windows is running
is the qualifying hardware or computer that was supposed to accompany the
software. The OEM supplier is *supposed* to require inclusion of hardware,
but that doesn't affect your ability to install and activate the software if
the hardware is missing. As the end user, the most you can ever get is a
warm fuzzy feeling that you PROBABLY have a legitimate copy. You'll never
have absolute proof. Saying a store sold you the software without hardware
and that it activates is not proof of legitimacy, especially since
activation is "loose" considering the general-purpose hardware platform on
which it gets installed.

Not all pirates are the low-quality cut-and-run types you find on eBay.
Some pirated products are nearly indistinguishable from the real stuff. It
sure would be nice if a larger number of Microsoft folk actually visited
these newsgroups so that maybe one of them could go internal to check if
there are any Spain-based (or anywhere else) OEM resellers that are allowed
to sell the OEM version without it being installed on a prebuilt computer or
require qualifying hardware. The link provided by Kerry to the OEM Supplier
web page at Microsoft has the OEM contract listed and I don't see where the
OEM'er can get away without including some hardware with the Windows
software, but it is the standard contract yet I doubt your "stores" would
qualify for specialty contracts from Microsoft.