And yet you post using OE (X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express
6.00.2900.2180).

Tip 1: If you must make identical posts to multiple newsgroups, please
cross-post one (1) message to all of them.

Tip 2: OE Tools > Options > Send > News Sending Format > Plain Text >
Decrease line wrapping to 78 or lower.

Thank you. I /do/ feel better now.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE, Shell/User, Security), Aumha.org VSOP, DTS-L.org

JR wrote:
> I have always been an advocate of Microsoft over the years because I think
> they have been
> responsible for the vast improvement of computers and ultimately the
> internet because of
> their efforts..
>
> That has changed. I'm an old guy (76) who has enjoyed working with
> computers and programs
> and have developed a better-than-average knowledge, so I'm able to help
> other seniors when
> they have problems of one type or another.. I don't mean to suggest I'm an
> expert but I do have
> the ability to clean their systems of viruses, worms, TH and parasites
> along with correcting
> functional problems with their computers.
>
> More and more I find continuing problems with Internet Explorer and
> Outlook Express..
>
> Recently a friend, using Win98SE, IE and OE 6 is having problems with IE
> being unable
> to download files and being extremely slow (he has a broadband connection
> that shows
> 1.5Mbps throughput) and his OE is realllllly slow; not only opening but in
> every function
> of the program. It is really nerve wracking..
>
> I attempted to research the problems going to the various newsgroups;
> searching Google
> for answers and going to Microsoft support functions. None of the supposed
> solutions
> worked. As much as I don't like to, I changed some of the Registry
> settings that were
> recommended and still no improvement.. for some reason IE has been
> corrupted..
>
> I then went to Opera, downloaded and installed it on my own system and
> changed the
> account settings to receive my e-mail through their client.. It worked
> great other than
> it will not play audio embedded in the message. It does have other
> features that are
> better than OE.. The Opera browser is much faster and cleaner and they
> have a option
> for voice for readback to those who have vision problems.. A good idea..
>
> I then installed Mozilla Firefox and Thunderbird. Their new version is
> much improved
> and their Thunderbird beats OE hands down.
>
> Yesterday I went to my friends home and installed Mozilla Firefox and
> Thunderbird.
> He is really happy with the results. His browser works great and he is
> able to
> download files and programs.. I downloaded a new version of the free AVAST
> anti-virus program and it was fast.
>
> It took just a few minutes to transfer his OE address book (automatically)
> and all
> his messages to Thunderbird. It even transferred the account information;
> POP
> settings and SMTP settings .. The only thing that had to be entered was
> the password which made sense..
>
> Again, I hate to be critical of Microsoft but enough is enough.. They are
> supposed
> to be coming out with a new version of IE and OE but people with older OS
> can't
> use them..
>
> I have a 3.00Mhz Intell processor, 160GB HD, 1 GB RAM, 19" CRT monitor
> and most of the bells and whistles in case you might think I'm still
> operating with
> Win98..
>
> Some of you might not realize it, but open C:\Windows and see the
> tremendous number of Security updates your system has installed.. So far
> I have 431MB ofsecurity updates on my system..
>
> HELLO????? That should tell you something..!!!!
>
> Hope you all have a Very Merry Christmas and a Healthy, Happy and
> Prosperous New Year.. Happy Hanukkah and Happy Kwanzaa also..
>
> God Bless!!
>
> JR

PA Bear,

I have a lot of respect for MS MVP's since they've helped me over the years
tremendously.. I appreciate your reply..

I made the first post to Internet Explorer but after I posted it, decided
that it applied as much to Outlook Express so I did send it again as a
separate post.. sorry if that is improper..

I've always had problems with OE truncating my messages and have recommended
several times that Microsoft include a feature in OE that was in the early
browsers of Netcom in late 90's. They had a tab you could slide wherever you
wanted the text to wrap which made it really easy to do and resulted in a
much neater message.. I did check my settings in Tools/Options/Send/News
Sending Format/Plain Text and it is 78.. ??

I also tried to send the original post using the Mozilla Thunderbird Client
but it wouldn't accept it so I used OE..

The previous post accused me of being a Troll.. That is just a way of
ignoring the message and probably answered by a Microsoft employee who can't
stand criticism. I look at this newsgroup as well as other Microsoft
newsgroups and read posts covering every conceivable problem that you can
imagine with IE and OE and I just thought, until Microsoft gets their act
together (I was told the new IE will not be available until early or mid
2006 and that OE will not change at all ??? ) that many people would be wise
to consider other alternatives in the meantime..

It just makes me wonder why it has taken Microsoft so long to react to the
competition? For a number of years Microsoft and Netscape went head to head
to capture the browser market which resulted in a better program for
everyone. Then MS just let it sit without any effort to improve IE or OE..
Now they have some serious competition and anyone that comes up with an
answer to many people's problems is called a TROLL..

Thanks for your help.. and hope you have a Very Merry Christmas and a
Healthy, Happy and Prosperous New Year..

JR

"JR" <rhondeau2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eb9H85E$FHA.912@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> PA Bear,
>
> I have a lot of respect for MS MVP's since they've helped me over the
> years tremendously.. I appreciate your reply..
>
> I made the first post to Internet Explorer but after I posted it, decided
> that it applied as much to Outlook Express so I did send it again as a
> separate post.. sorry if that is improper..
>

Don't worry about it too much. It some groups they say to do it one way, in
other groups they say the other way. Unless you happen to be psychic just do
it your way, ignore those that have nothing better to do than to moan -
there are more important things for you to be thinking about.

> I've always had problems with OE truncating my messages

Description of the cumulative update for Outlook Express (KB887797)
[See Symptom 6; Recommend reading all Symptoms/Resolutions closely]
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/887797

After installing 887797, you may be interested in...

An update that addresses Outlook Express 6.0 issues is available for Windows
XP:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/900930

> It just makes me wonder why it has taken Microsoft so long to react to the
> competition?

Believe me, you're not the only one to wonder this. Simply put, OE is a
"revenue neutral" application. When it comes to the bottom line (as it
always does), such application won't get much attention without a lot of
prodding. We may see a /few/ improvements/bugs fixed in OE6 SP1 once Vista
(and Windows Mail) goes RTM next year but I wouldn't hold my breath.
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE, Shell/User, Security), Aumha.org VSOP, DTS-L.org


JR wrote:
> PA Bear,
>
> I have a lot of respect for MS MVP's since they've helped me over the
> years tremendously.. I appreciate your reply..
>
> I made the first post to Internet Explorer but after I posted it, decided
> that it applied as much to Outlook Express so I did send it again as a
> separate post.. sorry if that is improper..
>
> I've always had problems with OE truncating my messages and have
> recommended several times that Microsoft include a feature in OE that was
> in the early browsers of Netcom in late 90's. They had a tab you could
> slide wherever you wanted the text to wrap which made it really easy to
> do and resulted in a much neater message.. I did check my settings in
> Tools/Options/Send/News Sending Format/Plain Text and it is 78.. ??
>
> I also tried to send the original post using the Mozilla Thunderbird
> Client but it wouldn't accept it so I used OE..
>
> The previous post accused me of being a Troll.. That is just a way of
> ignoring the message and probably answered by a Microsoft employee who
> can't stand criticism. I look at this newsgroup as well as other Microsoft
> newsgroups and read posts covering every conceivable problem that you can
> imagine with IE and OE and I just thought, until Microsoft gets their act
> together (I was told the new IE will not be available until early or mid
> 2006 and that OE will not change at all ??? ) that many people would be
> wise to consider other alternatives in the meantime..
>
> It just makes me wonder why it has taken Microsoft so long to react to the
> competition? For a number of years Microsoft and Netscape went head to
> head to capture the browser market which resulted in a better program for
> everyone. Then MS just let it sit without any effort to improve IE or OE..
> Now they have some serious competition and anyone that comes up with an
> answer to many people's problems is called a TROLL..
>
> Thanks for your help.. and hope you have a Very Merry Christmas and a
> Healthy, Happy and Prosperous New Year..
>
> JR

"JR" <rhondeau2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eb9H85E$FHA.912@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl
....
> "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote
....
> Tip 2: OE Tools > Options > Send > News Sending Format > Plain Text >
> Decrease line wrapping to 78 or lower.
....

....
> I've always had problems with OE truncating my messages


Elaborate on what you mean exactly by "truncating" messages.

If you mean "breaking" paragraphs by inserting spurious line ends
you have to be aware of how line ends get inserted when you are
composing in Plain Text format. In particular if you are using
its "Automatically wrap text at..." option (which unfortunately
can not be disabled) consider that every paragraph which does
not flow continuously (e.g. in a maximized window) presents
the possibility of having small (broken) lines somewhere
in the middle of it.

Instead, what I do is set that option at its maximum of 132
and perform my own formatting just as I used to long ago
on typewriters or computer terminals. As long as I can see
a pleasing format in a maximized window I know that OE's
mindless Autowrap "feechur" won't break it.

At least that is the way it used to work before OE6sp2
added its implementation of Format=Flowed. Now, it is not
enough to have pre-inspected the format of a composition;
I may also have to do a post-inspection of it in the Outbox
(with Work Offline on of course!) because Format=Flowed
is apparently applied to _quoted_ text only *after* it is
written to either Drafts or the Outbox. An alternative to
having to do this (apart from fiddling with the Autowrap
limit) is to make sure that every quoted line does not end
with a space but that is only practical with very brief quotes.


> and have recommended
> several times that Microsoft include a feature in OE that was in the early
> browsers of Netcom in late 90's. They had a tab you could slide wherever you
> wanted the text to wrap which made it really easy to do and resulted in a
> much neater message..


In fact, WordPad has this feature (called "Wrap to ruler").
I haven't checked to see how feasible it would be
to use it in its Text mode and then copy and paste
from WordPad into OE. And I also don't know
if WordPad makes the user any more aware of when
too long lines (e.g. wrapped lines) are being created.
That is the only problem I have occasionally with my technique.
Occasionally, especially when concatenating or pasting
in a normal mode composition window, I lose track
of where the line ends are and end up creating lines
which are much bigger than I would have intended.


> I did check my settings in Tools/Options/Send/News
> Sending Format/Plain Text and it is 78.. ??
>
> I also tried to send the original post using the Mozilla Thunderbird Client
> but it wouldn't accept it so I used OE..

There's your answer then. Probably the line size that you had there
is the problem. E.g. if it was over 90 there and you copy and pasted
the paragraphs that it created without making those lines flow in a new
paragraph you would have your symptom of 78 character lines each
followed by a line with a few more words. Unfortunately OE would
treat each of those lines as a small paragraph and thus let them "flow"
to their original length on the composition window, so you would be
unlikely to realize that they would be subject to chopping up at the
Autowrap limit.


HTH

Robert Aldwinckle
---

Robert,

Thank you for taking the time to answer me about the 'word wrap' problem..

The line wrap setting (recommended to be 78) is only good if you are writing
a message in TEXT mode. This will not work when you write in Rich Text
(HTML) mode which most people are using now..

Truncating to me means the sentence doesn't extend to the point it showed
when it was typed originally but is cut off and the remaining words in that
sentence are placed in the following line.

As I said in my other message, Microsoft could make it a simple matter of
placing a moveable tab stop that a person could slide to the point they want
the word wrap to occur. Netcom used to have this feature in their e-mail
client that worked great..

You just slid the tab to a point you wanted the sentence to end and it
would automatically move you to the next line to continue typing.. If Netcom
could have something like this way back in 1994 I'm sure it would be a
no-brainer for Microsoft to include that (even as a patch) to Outlook
Express.

I've done as you suggested; typing the full width of the page (132) and
then go back to approximately 78 and move all the lines down to make
it more even. It is really time consuming and a lot of work that shouldn't
be necessary..

I don't know how this is going to look after I send it.. It looks fine now
but will probably be all screwed up when I open it in the newsgroup.

It is frustrating..

Thanks again for your help...

JR


"Robert Aldwinckle" <robald@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:OYjBzbp$FHA.272@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
| "JR" <rhondeau2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:eb9H85E$FHA.912@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl
| ...
| > "PA Bear" <PABearMVP@gmail.com> wrote
| ...
| > Tip 2: OE Tools > Options > Send > News Sending Format > Plain Text >
| > Decrease line wrapping to 78 or lower.
| ...
|
| ...
| > I've always had problems with OE truncating my messages
|
|
| Elaborate on what you mean exactly by "truncating" messages.
|
| If you mean "breaking" paragraphs by inserting spurious line ends
| you have to be aware of how line ends get inserted when you are
| composing in Plain Text format. In particular if you are using
| its "Automatically wrap text at..." option (which unfortunately
| can not be disabled) consider that every paragraph which does
| not flow continuously (e.g. in a maximized window) presents
| the possibility of having small (broken) lines somewhere
| in the middle of it.
|
| Instead, what I do is set that option at its maximum of 132
| and perform my own formatting just as I used to long ago
| on typewriters or computer terminals. As long as I can see
| a pleasing format in a maximized window I know that OE's
| mindless Autowrap "feechur" won't break it.
|
| At least that is the way it used to work before OE6sp2
| added its implementation of Format=Flowed. Now, it is not
| enough to have pre-inspected the format of a composition;
| I may also have to do a post-inspection of it in the Outbox
| (with Work Offline on of course!) because Format=Flowed
| is apparently applied to _quoted_ text only *after* it is
| written to either Drafts or the Outbox. An alternative to
| having to do this (apart from fiddling with the Autowrap
| limit) is to make sure that every quoted line does not end
| with a space but that is only practical with very brief quotes.
|
|
| > and have recommended
| > several times that Microsoft include a feature in OE that was in the
early
| > browsers of Netcom in late 90's. They had a tab you could slide wherever
you
| > wanted the text to wrap which made it really easy to do and resulted in
a
| > much neater message..
|
|
| In fact, WordPad has this feature (called "Wrap to ruler").
| I haven't checked to see how feasible it would be
| to use it in its Text mode and then copy and paste
| from WordPad into OE. And I also don't know
| if WordPad makes the user any more aware of when
| too long lines (e.g. wrapped lines) are being created.
| That is the only problem I have occasionally with my technique.
| Occasionally, especially when concatenating or pasting
| in a normal mode composition window, I lose track
| of where the line ends are and end up creating lines
| which are much bigger than I would have intended.
|
|
| > I did check my settings in Tools/Options/Send/News
| > Sending Format/Plain Text and it is 78.. ??
| >
| > I also tried to send the original post using the Mozilla Thunderbird
Client
| > but it wouldn't accept it so I used OE..
|
| There's your answer then. Probably the line size that you had there
| is the problem. E.g. if it was over 90 there and you copy and pasted
| the paragraphs that it created without making those lines flow in a new
| paragraph you would have your symptom of 78 character lines each
| followed by a line with a few more words. Unfortunately OE would
| treat each of those lines as a small paragraph and thus let them "flow"
| to their original length on the composition window, so you would be
| unlikely to realize that they would be subject to chopping up at the
| Autowrap limit.
|
|
| HTH
|
| Robert Aldwinckle
| ---
|
|
|

"JR" <rhondeau2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eaO2wM7$FHA.3392@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl
> Robert,
>
> Thank you for taking the time to answer me about the 'word wrap'
> problem..
>
> The line wrap setting (recommended to be 78) is only good if you are
> writing a message in TEXT mode. This will not work when you write in
> Rich Text (HTML) mode which most people are using now..
>
> Truncating to me means the sentence doesn't extend to the point it
> showed when it was typed originally but is cut off and the remaining
> words in that sentence are placed in the following line.
>
> As I said in my other message, Microsoft could make it a simple
> matter of placing a moveable tab stop that a person could slide to
> the point they want the word wrap to occur. Netcom used to have this
> feature in their e-mail client that worked great..
>
> You just slid the tab to a point you wanted the sentence to end and it
> would automatically move you to the next line to continue typing.. If
> Netcom could have something like this way back in 1994 I'm sure it
> would be a no-brainer for Microsoft to include that (even as a patch)
> to Outlook Express.
>
> I've done as you suggested; typing the full width of the page (132)
> and then go back to approximately 78 and move all the lines down to
> make
> it more even. It is really time consuming and a lot of work that
> shouldn't be necessary..
>
> I don't know how this is going to look after I send it.. It looks
> fine now but will probably be all screwed up when I open it in the
> newsgroup.
>
> It is frustrating..

Set your encoding to MIME/Quoted Printable (Tools | OPtions | Send). Only
do this for HTML and don't do it for News.

--
Frank Saunders, MS-MVP OE
Please respond in Newsgroup only. Do not send email
http://www.fjsmjs.com
Protect your PC
http://www.microsoft.com./athome/sec...t/default.aspx
http://defendingyourmachine.blogspot.com/

"JR" <rhondeau2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:eaO2wM7$FHA.3392@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl
....
> | Instead, what I do is set that option at its maximum of 132
> | and perform my own formatting just as I used to long ago
> | on typewriters or computer terminals. As long as I can see
> | a pleasing format in a maximized window I know that OE's
> | mindless Autowrap "feechur" won't break it.

> I've done as you suggested; typing the full width of the page (132) and
> then go back to approximately 78 and move all the lines down to make
> it more even. It is really time consuming and a lot of work that shouldn't
> be necessary..


Sounds like you have misunderstood somewhat. I only type as far as
I want and then insert my own carriage return at the end of every line.
By ensuring that every line has a carriage return and knowing that OE
won't try to break any line shorter than 132 I eliminate the uncertainty
of most post-send reformatting caused by its Autowrap feature.

Provided I don't need to do any revisions in what I write I don't have
to "move" anything and I don't find that part time consuming at all.
On the contrary I appreciate the extra control it gives me for placing
every word exactly where I want it.

The only really unnecessary work I have is finding out whether the
previous poster used Format=Flowed and whether I need to do a
post-send re-edit because of that. In fact, there is a registry hack
to disable use of Format=Flowed available; so that extra effort
could be eliminated if I chose to use it.


Robert
---

Thanks to both of you...

Like I've always said, "It is a darn good thing there are people who are
smarter than I am"..

That comment will give 'Vanguard' an opportunity to make one of his asinine
comments..

Have a good one all!!

JR


"Robert Aldwinckle" <robald@techemail.com> wrote in message
news:OYHY2p$$FHA.1676@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
| "JR" <rhondeau2001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| news:eaO2wM7$FHA.3392@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl
| ...
| > | Instead, what I do is set that option at its maximum of 132
| > | and perform my own formatting just as I used to long ago
| > | on typewriters or computer terminals. As long as I can see
| > | a pleasing format in a maximized window I know that OE's
| > | mindless Autowrap "feechur" won't break it.
|
| > I've done as you suggested; typing the full width of the page (132) and
| > then go back to approximately 78 and move all the lines down to make
| > it more even. It is really time consuming and a lot of work that
shouldn't
| > be necessary..
|
|
| Sounds like you have misunderstood somewhat. I only type as far as
| I want and then insert my own carriage return at the end of every line.
| By ensuring that every line has a carriage return and knowing that OE
| won't try to break any line shorter than 132 I eliminate the uncertainty
| of most post-send reformatting caused by its Autowrap feature.
|
| Provided I don't need to do any revisions in what I write I don't have
| to "move" anything and I don't find that part time consuming at all.
| On the contrary I appreciate the extra control it gives me for placing
| every word exactly where I want it.
|
| The only really unnecessary work I have is finding out whether the
| previous poster used Format=Flowed and whether I need to do a
| post-send re-edit because of that. In fact, there is a registry hack
| to disable use of Format=Flowed available; so that extra effort
| could be eliminated if I chose to use it.
|
|
| Robert
| ---
|
|