I've read quite a few of the threads that discuss compaction and it seems to
me the bottom line is that compaction can be hazardous to the health of your
OE folders. Suppose that you had complete control over compacting; what is
the worst that could happen if you almost NEVER compacted?

It seems to me that if you could reset the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction would never
occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep in due
to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled environment,
such as a modified SAFE mode.

Is the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed counter kept in the Registry? Would it be
difficult to write a program that could be run each time Windows starts that
would simply reset the count to 0, or even better when OE starts up. I
believe I read that OEtool resets the counter, but only after doing a manual
compaction. What I'm suggesting is something that: does the reset without any
manual intervention, that is, could be run at Windows (or OE) startup; and,
does not require compacting. An alternative might be a program that simply
displays the value of the counter that could run each time you start Windows
(or OE). This would give you the opportunity to run a manual compaction when
the counter started to approach the automatic trigger value (100?).

TIA for your comments,

Phil

Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages if
you don't.

With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:

Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.

And this is a very good option:

Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
before 100 closings.

http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/

It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.

If the folders are being compacted automatically, you must have checked Do
not show me this again for the prompt to compact after 100 closings of OE.
The first thing you have to do is put the prompt back, because removing it
doesn't stop compacting, you just don't know it is happening now and if you
do something such as turning off the computer while compacting is in
progress, you will wipe out messages.

Replace the Compact Prompt:

Go to: Start>Run>Regedit>Enter and follow this path:

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Micro soft\Outlook
Express\5.0\Don't Show Dialogs.

In the right pane right click on the appropriate entry and choose Delete.

Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages if
you don't.

With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact

To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:

Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.

And this is a very good option:

Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
before 100 closings.

http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/

It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.

Please read:

Why Mail Disappears:
http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#mailgone

About File Corruption:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com...
> I've read quite a few of the threads that discuss compaction and it seems
> to
> me the bottom line is that compaction can be hazardous to the health of
> your
> OE folders. Suppose that you had complete control over compacting; what is
> the worst that could happen if you almost NEVER compacted?
>
> It seems to me that if you could reset the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
> counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction would
> never
> occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep in
> due
> to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled environment,
> such as a modified SAFE mode.
>
> Is the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed counter kept in the Registry? Would it
> be
> difficult to write a program that could be run each time Windows starts
> that
> would simply reset the count to 0, or even better when OE starts up. I
> believe I read that OEtool resets the counter, but only after doing a
> manual
> compaction. What I'm suggesting is something that: does the reset without
> any
> manual intervention, that is, could be run at Windows (or OE) startup;
> and,
> does not require compacting. An alternative might be a program that simply
> displays the value of the counter that could run each time you start
> Windows
> (or OE). This would give you the opportunity to run a manual compaction
> when
> the counter started to approach the automatic trigger value (100?).
>
> TIA for your comments,
>
> Phil

"pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com
> I've read quite a few of the threads that discuss compaction and it
> seems to me the bottom line is that compaction can be hazardous to
> the health of your OE folders. Suppose that you had complete control
> over compacting; what is the worst that could happen if you almost
> NEVER compacted?

Sooner or later, and probably sooner, you would click the Outlook Express
shortcut and you would see only the 'system busy' cursor, or else an error
message along the lines of "Outlook Express could not be started". You would
then be unable to access your mail at all until you fiddled in the registry,
created a new Identity, deleted the uncompacted and now-damaged "folders.dbx"
in the original Identity, and lost a lot of hair.

I'll keep it simple: you MUST compact ALL folders periodically. How often you
do so depends on how heavily you use Outlook Express.

The problem with compacting has nothing to do with whether the compaction is
launched automatically or manually. The problem has to do with the user
continuing to use the computer, or worse, turning off the power, *during* the
compaction process. Once compaction begins you MUST let it finish or you risk
losing messages.

For more:
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx

--
Tom Koch, MVP for IE/Outlook Express
http://tomserdam.com
http://insideoe.com
http://iusevista.com
Awareness is free.

"pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com...

> It seems to me that if you could reset the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
> counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction would
> never
> occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep in
> due
> to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled environment,
> such as a modified SAFE mode.

Question answered in this paragraph. By the time you "Observe" bad things
creeping in the damage is done and it's too late.

Sorry, I was (and am) apparently totally confused about the current
implementation.

I'm still confused about what happens after the 100th time OE closes. The
insideoe article you point me to says in part "OE now waits until you open
and close the program 100 times. After that 100th time OE begins to
compact..." This sounds to me as if it's going to compact whether I think
it's a good time to do that or not. Your message says "...Now you will get a
prompt to compact after 100 OE closings, which you should do." Which is it?
Do I get the opportunity to say "NO, I don;t want to compact at this time",
or does OE go ahead and do it without giving me an option to say NO? I'm not
trying to split hairs, but I think this is the crux of the issue for me. On
the one hand, I can't control whether compaction happens at more-or-less
random times (the 100th open/close); on the other hand, I can just say NO
whenever asked, if it's not a good time to compact. I do not recall ever
being prompted to go/nogo compaction and that's why it seems plausible to me
that it's going to go ahead and compact the 100th time, whether I want it to
or not, without my ever realizing it.

If I can expect that OE will be compacting at some time, without my
realizing it, then I would like to be able to run something more-or-less
automatically to keep that from happening, hence my question about a program
for resetting the counter to zero at OE startup.

I'm also not totally secure in what is being said about the need for
compaction. Seems there are two schools of thought: 1) you need to compact
often because it improves performance and conserves disk space; 2) you need
to compact often because OE has certain limitations which will cause
messages, even entire folders, to be lost if you don't compact often enough.
I now have a feeling that both are true, but I had been working under the
impression that the only real downside to not compacting was #1 (performance
and disk space). Taking a performance and disk space hit to avoid losing
messages after an automatic compaction had been terminated before completion
seemed like a no-brainer.

Regarding "Replace the Compact Prompt:" -- I don't see anything in my
Registry that sounds like it has anything to do with the Compact Prompt for
any of the three userids that I have defined. I see "HTML Plain warning, Send
Mail Warning, Saved in Saved Items". So I guess I'll see the prompt after the
next 100th open/close of OE.

Thank you very much for your help. I apologize for being so dense.

Phil


"Bruce Hagen" wrote:

> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages if
> you don't.
>
> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
>
> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
>
> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
>
> And this is a very good option:
>
> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
> before 100 closings.
>
> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
>
> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
>
> If the folders are being compacted automatically, you must have checked Do
> not show me this again for the prompt to compact after 100 closings of OE.
> The first thing you have to do is put the prompt back, because removing it
> doesn't stop compacting, you just don't know it is happening now and if you
> do something such as turning off the computer while compacting is in
> progress, you will wipe out messages.
>
> Replace the Compact Prompt:
>
> Go to: Start>Run>Regedit>Enter and follow this path:
>
> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Micro soft\Outlook
> Express\5.0\Don't Show Dialogs.
>
> In the right pane right click on the appropriate entry and choose Delete.
>
> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages if
> you don't.
>
> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
>
> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
>
> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
>
> And this is a very good option:
>
> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
> before 100 closings.
>
> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
>
> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
>
> Please read:
>
> Why Mail Disappears:
> http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#mailgone
>
> About File Corruption:
> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx
> --
> Bruce Hagen
> MS MVP - Outlook Express
> ~IB-CA~
>
> "pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com...
> > I've read quite a few of the threads that discuss compaction and it seems
> > to
> > me the bottom line is that compaction can be hazardous to the health of
> > your
> > OE folders. Suppose that you had complete control over compacting; what is
> > the worst that could happen if you almost NEVER compacted?
> >
> > It seems to me that if you could reset the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
> > counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction would
> > never
> > occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep in
> > due
> > to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled environment,
> > such as a modified SAFE mode.
> >
> > Is the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed counter kept in the Registry? Would it
> > be
> > difficult to write a program that could be run each time Windows starts
> > that
> > would simply reset the count to 0, or even better when OE starts up. I
> > believe I read that OEtool resets the counter, but only after doing a
> > manual
> > compaction. What I'm suggesting is something that: does the reset without
> > any
> > manual intervention, that is, could be run at Windows (or OE) startup;
> > and,
> > does not require compacting. An alternative might be a program that simply
> > displays the value of the counter that could run each time you start
> > Windows
> > (or OE). This would give you the opportunity to run a manual compaction
> > when
> > the counter started to approach the automatic trigger value (100?).
> >
> > TIA for your comments,
> >
> > Phil
>
>

<Reply Inline>

"pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:05445F35-28A2-40B6-8E3D-E2D4B3D3CDD0@microsoft.com...
> Sorry, I was (and am) apparently totally confused about the current
> implementation.
>
> I'm still confused about what happens after the 100th time OE closes. The
> insideoe article you point me to says in part "OE now waits until you open
> and close the program 100 times. After that 100th time OE begins to
> compact..." This sounds to me as if it's going to compact whether I think
> it's a good time to do that or not. Your message says "...Now you will get
> a
> prompt to compact after 100 OE closings, which you should do." Which is
> it?
> Do I get the opportunity to say "NO, I don;t want to compact at this
> time",
> or does OE go ahead and do it without giving me an option to say NO? I'm
> not
> trying to split hairs, but I think this is the crux of the issue for me.
> On
> the one hand, I can't control whether compaction happens at more-or-less
> random times (the 100th open/close); on the other hand, I can just say NO
> whenever asked, if it's not a good time to compact. I do not recall ever
> being prompted to go/nogo compaction and that's why it seems plausible to
> me
> that it's going to go ahead and compact the 100th time, whether I want it
> to
> or not, without my ever realizing it.


The article is a bit confusing. Unless you have made a change, with XP/SP2,
after 100 closings you will be prompted to compact. You can say no, but you
will keep seeing that prompt every time you close OE until you do compact.
It will not compact without you knowing unless you chose to not show the
prompt again.


>
> If I can expect that OE will be compacting at some time, without my
> realizing it, then I would like to be able to run something more-or-less
> automatically to keep that from happening, hence my question about a
> program
> for resetting the counter to zero at OE startup.


You can reset the counter to zero whenever you want, via the Register. But
failure to compact periodically will result in a slowdown of OE and a good
chance of loseing messages forever.


>
> I'm also not totally secure in what is being said about the need for
> compaction. Seems there are two schools of thought: 1) you need to compact
> often because it improves performance and conserves disk space; 2) you
> need
> to compact often because OE has certain limitations which will cause
> messages, even entire folders, to be lost if you don't compact often
> enough.
> I now have a feeling that both are true, but I had been working under the
> impression that the only real downside to not compacting was #1
> (performance
> and disk space). Taking a performance and disk space hit to avoid losing
> messages after an automatic compaction had been terminated before
> completion
> seemed like a no-brainer.


In addition to my last above remark, when you delete messages, and empty the
Deleted Items folder, the dbx file size does not decrease until you compact.
The dbx files have size limitations which is why compaction is necessary.


>
> Regarding "Replace the Compact Prompt:" -- I don't see anything in my
> Registry that sounds like it has anything to do with the Compact Prompt
> for
> any of the three userids that I have defined. I see "HTML Plain warning,
> Send
> Mail Warning, Saved in Saved Items". So I guess I'll see the prompt after
> the
> next 100th open/close of OE.


This is how you can reset the counter to zero, (0). But if you change the
number to 100, you will see the compact prompt after opening and closing OE,
(unless you did choose Do Not Show Me This Again). Whatever you do, Once
compacting has started, Do Not touch anything until it has finished.

I still believe that OETool (Freeware) is the best thing you can do, because
you compact when you want, and it is the only program that will reset the
counter to zero when you're done.

Feel free to post back if you need more clarification.
--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~


>
> Thank you very much for your help. I apologize for being so dense.
>
> Phil
>
>
> "Bruce Hagen" wrote:
>
>> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
>> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages
>> if
>> you don't.
>>
>> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
>> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
>> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
>> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
>>
>> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
>>
>> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
>> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
>> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
>> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
>> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
>>
>> And this is a very good option:
>>
>> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
>> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
>> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
>> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
>> before 100 closings.
>>
>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
>>
>> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
>>
>> If the folders are being compacted automatically, you must have checked
>> Do
>> not show me this again for the prompt to compact after 100 closings of
>> OE.
>> The first thing you have to do is put the prompt back, because removing
>> it
>> doesn't stop compacting, you just don't know it is happening now and if
>> you
>> do something such as turning off the computer while compacting is in
>> progress, you will wipe out messages.
>>
>> Replace the Compact Prompt:
>>
>> Go to: Start>Run>Regedit>Enter and follow this path:
>>
>> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Micro soft\Outlook
>> Express\5.0\Don't Show Dialogs.
>>
>> In the right pane right click on the appropriate entry and choose Delete.
>>
>> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
>> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages
>> if
>> you don't.
>>
>> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
>> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
>> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
>> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
>>
>> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
>>
>> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
>> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
>> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
>> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
>> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
>>
>> And this is a very good option:
>>
>> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
>> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
>> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
>> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
>> before 100 closings.
>>
>> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
>>
>> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
>>
>> Please read:
>>
>> Why Mail Disappears:
>> http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#mailgone
>>
>> About File Corruption:
>> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx
>> --
>> Bruce Hagen
>> MS MVP - Outlook Express
>> ~IB-CA~
>>
>> "pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com...
>> > I've read quite a few of the threads that discuss compaction and it
>> > seems
>> > to
>> > me the bottom line is that compaction can be hazardous to the health
>> > of
>> > your
>> > OE folders. Suppose that you had complete control over compacting; what
>> > is
>> > the worst that could happen if you almost NEVER compacted?
>> >
>> > It seems to me that if you could reset the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
>> > counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction would
>> > never
>> > occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep in
>> > due
>> > to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled
>> > environment,
>> > such as a modified SAFE mode.
>> >
>> > Is the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed counter kept in the Registry? Would
>> > it
>> > be
>> > difficult to write a program that could be run each time Windows starts
>> > that
>> > would simply reset the count to 0, or even better when OE starts up. I
>> > believe I read that OEtool resets the counter, but only after doing a
>> > manual
>> > compaction. What I'm suggesting is something that: does the reset
>> > without
>> > any
>> > manual intervention, that is, could be run at Windows (or OE) startup;
>> > and,
>> > does not require compacting. An alternative might be a program that
>> > simply
>> > displays the value of the counter that could run each time you start
>> > Windows
>> > (or OE). This would give you the opportunity to run a manual compaction
>> > when
>> > the counter started to approach the automatic trigger value (100?).
>> >
>> > TIA for your comments,
>> >
>> > Phil
>>
>>

After reading your reply, I decided to close and re-open OE and look at the
registry keys again to see if I could spot anything that changed. Ironically,
I GOT THE COMPACTION MESSAGE!!! I responded CANCEL to it (don't compact) and
DID NOT check the "Dont show me this again" box.

Then I looked at the registry key
"HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Micr osoft\OutlookExpress\5.0\Don't
Show Dialogs". Again, I did not see anything that looked like it had anything
to do with the prompting message and nothing else had changed from before I
closed OE. However, I went up one level to the 5.0 folder and found two very
interesting entries: Background Compaction with a value of 00000001(1), and
Compact Check Count with a value of 00000065(101).

I continued to open and close OE and inspect the Registry Entries and saw
the counter increase and eventually, when I clicked the "Dont Show me this
again" box, saw the entry that you referred to previously. It's called Don't
Show Compaction Message or something like that in the Registry. I deleted
it, so I should see the compaction message if the counter ever reaches 100
again (it's now sitting at 1 after the compaction). I think I'll set it 100
to make sure the message will actually still display, then I can set it back
to 0.

As for the Background Compaction entry, I imagine it is an artifact of
pre-sp2 OE and has no impact in the current OE environment.

Thanks for your patience and for helping me understand this. I will
definitely start using OEtool for compacting. Regularly.

Phil

"Bruce Hagen" wrote:

> <Reply Inline>
>
> "pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:05445F35-28A2-40B6-8E3D-E2D4B3D3CDD0@microsoft.com...
> > Sorry, I was (and am) apparently totally confused about the current
> > implementation.
> >
> > I'm still confused about what happens after the 100th time OE closes. The
> > insideoe article you point me to says in part "OE now waits until you open
> > and close the program 100 times. After that 100th time OE begins to
> > compact..." This sounds to me as if it's going to compact whether I think
> > it's a good time to do that or not. Your message says "...Now you will get
> > a
> > prompt to compact after 100 OE closings, which you should do." Which is
> > it?
> > Do I get the opportunity to say "NO, I don;t want to compact at this
> > time",
> > or does OE go ahead and do it without giving me an option to say NO? I'm
> > not
> > trying to split hairs, but I think this is the crux of the issue for me.
> > On
> > the one hand, I can't control whether compaction happens at more-or-less
> > random times (the 100th open/close); on the other hand, I can just say NO
> > whenever asked, if it's not a good time to compact. I do not recall ever
> > being prompted to go/nogo compaction and that's why it seems plausible to
> > me
> > that it's going to go ahead and compact the 100th time, whether I want it
> > to
> > or not, without my ever realizing it.
>
>
> The article is a bit confusing. Unless you have made a change, with XP/SP2,
> after 100 closings you will be prompted to compact. You can say no, but you
> will keep seeing that prompt every time you close OE until you do compact.
> It will not compact without you knowing unless you chose to not show the
> prompt again.
>
>
> >
> > If I can expect that OE will be compacting at some time, without my
> > realizing it, then I would like to be able to run something more-or-less
> > automatically to keep that from happening, hence my question about a
> > program
> > for resetting the counter to zero at OE startup.
>
>
> You can reset the counter to zero whenever you want, via the Register. But
> failure to compact periodically will result in a slowdown of OE and a good
> chance of loseing messages forever.
>
>
> >
> > I'm also not totally secure in what is being said about the need for
> > compaction. Seems there are two schools of thought: 1) you need to compact
> > often because it improves performance and conserves disk space; 2) you
> > need
> > to compact often because OE has certain limitations which will cause
> > messages, even entire folders, to be lost if you don't compact often
> > enough.
> > I now have a feeling that both are true, but I had been working under the
> > impression that the only real downside to not compacting was #1
> > (performance
> > and disk space). Taking a performance and disk space hit to avoid losing
> > messages after an automatic compaction had been terminated before
> > completion
> > seemed like a no-brainer.
>
>
> In addition to my last above remark, when you delete messages, and empty the
> Deleted Items folder, the dbx file size does not decrease until you compact.
> The dbx files have size limitations which is why compaction is necessary.
>
>
> >
> > Regarding "Replace the Compact Prompt:" -- I don't see anything in my
> > Registry that sounds like it has anything to do with the Compact Prompt
> > for
> > any of the three userids that I have defined. I see "HTML Plain warning,
> > Send
> > Mail Warning, Saved in Saved Items". So I guess I'll see the prompt after
> > the
> > next 100th open/close of OE.
>
>
> This is how you can reset the counter to zero, (0). But if you change the
> number to 100, you will see the compact prompt after opening and closing OE,
> (unless you did choose Do Not Show Me This Again). Whatever you do, Once
> compacting has started, Do Not touch anything until it has finished.
>
> I still believe that OETool (Freeware) is the best thing you can do, because
> you compact when you want, and it is the only program that will reset the
> counter to zero when you're done.
>
> Feel free to post back if you need more clarification.
> --
> Bruce Hagen
> MS MVP - Outlook Express
> ~IB-CA~
>
>
> >
> > Thank you very much for your help. I apologize for being so dense.
> >
> > Phil
> >
> >
> > "Bruce Hagen" wrote:
> >
> >> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
> >> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages
> >> if
> >> you don't.
> >>
> >> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
> >> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
> >> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
> >> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
> >>
> >> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
> >>
> >> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
> >> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
> >> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
> >> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
> >> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
> >>
> >> And this is a very good option:
> >>
> >> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
> >> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
> >> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
> >> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
> >> before 100 closings.
> >>
> >> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
> >>
> >> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
> >>
> >> If the folders are being compacted automatically, you must have checked
> >> Do
> >> not show me this again for the prompt to compact after 100 closings of
> >> OE.
> >> The first thing you have to do is put the prompt back, because removing
> >> it
> >> doesn't stop compacting, you just don't know it is happening now and if
> >> you
> >> do something such as turning off the computer while compacting is in
> >> progress, you will wipe out messages.
> >>
> >> Replace the Compact Prompt:
> >>
> >> Go to: Start>Run>Regedit>Enter and follow this path:
> >>
> >> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Micro soft\Outlook
> >> Express\5.0\Don't Show Dialogs.
> >>
> >> In the right pane right click on the appropriate entry and choose Delete.
> >>
> >> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
> >> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved messages
> >> if
> >> you don't.
> >>
> >> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
> >> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
> >> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
> >> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
> >>
> >> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
> >>
> >> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
> >> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
> >> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
> >> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
> >> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
> >>
> >> And this is a very good option:
> >>
> >> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
> >> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
> >> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
> >> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
> >> before 100 closings.
> >>
> >> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
> >>
> >> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
> >>
> >> Please read:
> >>
> >> Why Mail Disappears:
> >> http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#mailgone
> >>
> >> About File Corruption:
> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx
> >> --
> >> Bruce Hagen
> >> MS MVP - Outlook Express
> >> ~IB-CA~
> >>
> >> "pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> >> news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com...
> >> > I've read quite a few of the threads that discuss compaction and it
> >> > seems
> >> > to
> >> > me the bottom line is that compaction can be hazardous to the health
> >> > of
> >> > your
> >> > OE folders. Suppose that you had complete control over compacting; what
> >> > is
> >> > the worst that could happen if you almost NEVER compacted?
> >> >
> >> > It seems to me that if you could reset the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
> >> > counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction would
> >> > never
> >> > occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep in
> >> > due
> >> > to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled
> >> > environment,
> >> > such as a modified SAFE mode.
> >> >
> >> > Is the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed counter kept in the Registry? Would
> >> > it
> >> > be
> >> > difficult to write a program that could be run each time Windows starts
> >> > that
> >> > would simply reset the count to 0, or even better when OE starts up. I
> >> > believe I read that OEtool resets the counter, but only after doing a
> >> > manual
> >> > compaction. What I'm suggesting is something that: does the reset
> >> > without
> >> > any
> >> > manual intervention, that is, could be run at Windows (or OE) startup;
> >> > and,
> >> > does not require compacting. An alternative might be a program that
> >> > simply
> >> > displays the value of the counter that could run each time you start
> >> > Windows
> >> > (or OE). This would give you the opportunity to run a manual compaction
> >> > when
> >> > the counter started to approach the automatic trigger value (100?).
> >> >
> >> > TIA for your comments,
> >> >
> >> > Phil
> >>
> >>
>
>

I think you have the gist of it. There should have been a Don't Show Dialogs
on the left, and clicking that should have revealed the Don't Show
Compacting message on the right, among others.

Regardless, you should be in good shape now. If you didn't read it, this
link explains things better than I can:

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx

(The Background Compacting was pre-SP2)

--
Bruce Hagen
MS MVP - Outlook Express
~IB-CA~

"pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:2EE20E29-94B3-47F9-955B-657F3412AD70@microsoft.com...
> After reading your reply, I decided to close and re-open OE and look at
> the
> registry keys again to see if I could spot anything that changed.
> Ironically,
> I GOT THE COMPACTION MESSAGE!!! I responded CANCEL to it (don't compact)
> and
> DID NOT check the "Dont show me this again" box.
>
> Then I looked at the registry key
> "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Micr osoft\OutlookExpress\5.0\Don't
> Show Dialogs". Again, I did not see anything that looked like it had
> anything
> to do with the prompting message and nothing else had changed from before
> I
> closed OE. However, I went up one level to the 5.0 folder and found two
> very
> interesting entries: Background Compaction with a value of 00000001(1),
> and
> Compact Check Count with a value of 00000065(101).
>
> I continued to open and close OE and inspect the Registry Entries and saw
> the counter increase and eventually, when I clicked the "Dont Show me this
> again" box, saw the entry that you referred to previously. It's called
> Don't
> Show Compaction Message or something like that in the Registry. I deleted
> it, so I should see the compaction message if the counter ever reaches 100
> again (it's now sitting at 1 after the compaction). I think I'll set it
> 100
> to make sure the message will actually still display, then I can set it
> back
> to 0.
>
> As for the Background Compaction entry, I imagine it is an artifact of
> pre-sp2 OE and has no impact in the current OE environment.
>
> Thanks for your patience and for helping me understand this. I will
> definitely start using OEtool for compacting. Regularly.
>
> Phil
>
> "Bruce Hagen" wrote:
>
>> <Reply Inline>
>>
>> "pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:05445F35-28A2-40B6-8E3D-E2D4B3D3CDD0@microsoft.com...
>> > Sorry, I was (and am) apparently totally confused about the current
>> > implementation.
>> >
>> > I'm still confused about what happens after the 100th time OE closes.
>> > The
>> > insideoe article you point me to says in part "OE now waits until you
>> > open
>> > and close the program 100 times. After that 100th time OE begins to
>> > compact..." This sounds to me as if it's going to compact whether I
>> > think
>> > it's a good time to do that or not. Your message says "...Now you will
>> > get
>> > a
>> > prompt to compact after 100 OE closings, which you should do." Which is
>> > it?
>> > Do I get the opportunity to say "NO, I don;t want to compact at this
>> > time",
>> > or does OE go ahead and do it without giving me an option to say NO?
>> > I'm
>> > not
>> > trying to split hairs, but I think this is the crux of the issue for
>> > me.
>> > On
>> > the one hand, I can't control whether compaction happens at
>> > more-or-less
>> > random times (the 100th open/close); on the other hand, I can just say
>> > NO
>> > whenever asked, if it's not a good time to compact. I do not recall
>> > ever
>> > being prompted to go/nogo compaction and that's why it seems plausible
>> > to
>> > me
>> > that it's going to go ahead and compact the 100th time, whether I want
>> > it
>> > to
>> > or not, without my ever realizing it.
>>
>>
>> The article is a bit confusing. Unless you have made a change, with
>> XP/SP2,
>> after 100 closings you will be prompted to compact. You can say no, but
>> you
>> will keep seeing that prompt every time you close OE until you do
>> compact.
>> It will not compact without you knowing unless you chose to not show the
>> prompt again.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > If I can expect that OE will be compacting at some time, without my
>> > realizing it, then I would like to be able to run something
>> > more-or-less
>> > automatically to keep that from happening, hence my question about a
>> > program
>> > for resetting the counter to zero at OE startup.
>>
>>
>> You can reset the counter to zero whenever you want, via the Register.
>> But
>> failure to compact periodically will result in a slowdown of OE and a
>> good
>> chance of loseing messages forever.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I'm also not totally secure in what is being said about the need for
>> > compaction. Seems there are two schools of thought: 1) you need to
>> > compact
>> > often because it improves performance and conserves disk space; 2) you
>> > need
>> > to compact often because OE has certain limitations which will cause
>> > messages, even entire folders, to be lost if you don't compact often
>> > enough.
>> > I now have a feeling that both are true, but I had been working under
>> > the
>> > impression that the only real downside to not compacting was #1
>> > (performance
>> > and disk space). Taking a performance and disk space hit to avoid
>> > losing
>> > messages after an automatic compaction had been terminated before
>> > completion
>> > seemed like a no-brainer.
>>
>>
>> In addition to my last above remark, when you delete messages, and empty
>> the
>> Deleted Items folder, the dbx file size does not decrease until you
>> compact.
>> The dbx files have size limitations which is why compaction is necessary.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Regarding "Replace the Compact Prompt:" -- I don't see anything in my
>> > Registry that sounds like it has anything to do with the Compact Prompt
>> > for
>> > any of the three userids that I have defined. I see "HTML Plain
>> > warning,
>> > Send
>> > Mail Warning, Saved in Saved Items". So I guess I'll see the prompt
>> > after
>> > the
>> > next 100th open/close of OE.
>>
>>
>> This is how you can reset the counter to zero, (0). But if you change the
>> number to 100, you will see the compact prompt after opening and closing
>> OE,
>> (unless you did choose Do Not Show Me This Again). Whatever you do, Once
>> compacting has started, Do Not touch anything until it has finished.
>>
>> I still believe that OETool (Freeware) is the best thing you can do,
>> because
>> you compact when you want, and it is the only program that will reset the
>> counter to zero when you're done.
>>
>> Feel free to post back if you need more clarification.
>> --
>> Bruce Hagen
>> MS MVP - Outlook Express
>> ~IB-CA~
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Thank you very much for your help. I apologize for being so dense.
>> >
>> > Phil
>> >
>> >
>> > "Bruce Hagen" wrote:
>> >
>> >> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
>> >> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved
>> >> messages
>> >> if
>> >> you don't.
>> >>
>> >> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
>> >> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
>> >> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
>> >> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
>> >>
>> >> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
>> >>
>> >> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
>> >> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
>> >> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
>> >> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
>> >> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
>> >>
>> >> And this is a very good option:
>> >>
>> >> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
>> >> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
>> >> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
>> >> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
>> >> before 100 closings.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
>> >>
>> >> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
>> >>
>> >> If the folders are being compacted automatically, you must have
>> >> checked
>> >> Do
>> >> not show me this again for the prompt to compact after 100 closings of
>> >> OE.
>> >> The first thing you have to do is put the prompt back, because
>> >> removing
>> >> it
>> >> doesn't stop compacting, you just don't know it is happening now and
>> >> if
>> >> you
>> >> do something such as turning off the computer while compacting is in
>> >> progress, you will wipe out messages.
>> >>
>> >> Replace the Compact Prompt:
>> >>
>> >> Go to: Start>Run>Regedit>Enter and follow this path:
>> >>
>> >> HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Identities\{GUID}\Software\Micro soft\Outlook
>> >> Express\5.0\Don't Show Dialogs.
>> >>
>> >> In the right pane right click on the appropriate entry and choose
>> >> Delete.
>> >>
>> >> Compacting your folders periodically is a must to keep OE
>> >> functioning well and at some point, you may lose all your saved
>> >> messages
>> >> if
>> >> you don't.
>> >>
>> >> With SP2, automatic background compacting was removed due to
>> >> problems it caused. Now you will get a prompt to compact after 100
>> >> OE closings, which you should do. See this for more information:
>> >> http://www.insideoe.com/files/maintain.htm#compact
>> >>
>> >> To keep things running smooth, and for faster compacting:
>> >>
>> >> Do not archive mail in default OE folders. They will eventually
>> >> become corrupt and you may lose mail. Create your own user
>> >> defined folders for storing mail and move your mail to them.
>> >> Empty Deleted Items folder regularly. Keep user created folders
>> >> under 100MB, and Default folders as empty as is feasible.
>> >>
>> >> And this is a very good option:
>> >>
>> >> Steve Cochran has added a button in his new version of OE Tool
>> >> that will not only Compact All Folders, but at the same time,
>> >> resets the "Compact Check Count" to zero whenever you compact
>> >> manually. You will see the prompt again if you do not compact
>> >> before 100 closings.
>> >>
>> >> http://www.oehelp.com/OETool/
>> >>
>> >> It is still advised to check Work Offline before you compact.
>> >>
>> >> Please read:
>> >>
>> >> Why Mail Disappears:
>> >> http://www.insideoe.com/problems/bugs.htm#mailgone
>> >>
>> >> About File Corruption:
>> >> http://www.microsoft.com/windows/IE/...orruption.mspx
>> >> --
>> >> Bruce Hagen
>> >> MS MVP - Outlook Express
>> >> ~IB-CA~
>> >>
>> >> "pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> >> news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com...
>> >> > I've read quite a few of the threads that discuss compaction and it
>> >> > seems
>> >> > to
>> >> > me the bottom line is that compaction can be hazardous to the
>> >> > health
>> >> > of
>> >> > your
>> >> > OE folders. Suppose that you had complete control over compacting;
>> >> > what
>> >> > is
>> >> > the worst that could happen if you almost NEVER compacted?
>> >> >
>> >> > It seems to me that if you could reset the
>> >> > howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
>> >> > counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction
>> >> > would
>> >> > never
>> >> > occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep
>> >> > in
>> >> > due
>> >> > to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled
>> >> > environment,
>> >> > such as a modified SAFE mode.
>> >> >
>> >> > Is the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed counter kept in the Registry?
>> >> > Would
>> >> > it
>> >> > be
>> >> > difficult to write a program that could be run each time Windows
>> >> > starts
>> >> > that
>> >> > would simply reset the count to 0, or even better when OE starts up.
>> >> > I
>> >> > believe I read that OEtool resets the counter, but only after doing
>> >> > a
>> >> > manual
>> >> > compaction. What I'm suggesting is something that: does the reset
>> >> > without
>> >> > any
>> >> > manual intervention, that is, could be run at Windows (or OE)
>> >> > startup;
>> >> > and,
>> >> > does not require compacting. An alternative might be a program that
>> >> > simply
>> >> > displays the value of the counter that could run each time you start
>> >> > Windows
>> >> > (or OE). This would give you the opportunity to run a manual
>> >> > compaction
>> >> > when
>> >> > the counter started to approach the automatic trigger value (100?).
>> >> >
>> >> > TIA for your comments,
>> >> >
>> >> > Phil
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>

Sure would be great to have a KB article documenting Automatic Compacting in
WinXP SP2, wouldn't it?
--
~Robear Dyer (PA Bear)
MS MVP-Windows (IE/OE, Shell/User, Security), Aumha.org VSOP, DTS-L.org

pwrichcreek wrote:
> Sorry, I was (and am) apparently totally confused about the current
> implementation.
>
> I'm still confused about what happens after the 100th time OE closes.
<snip>

Hi: I'm a newbie, need some help. Using OE6 running on Wn98SE, I do compact
folders periodically. Today I tried do so, but OE crashed with following
error message:MSIMN caused an invalid page fault in
module DIRECTDB.DLL at 017f:01af6b9b.".
Assuming that folders.dbx was corrupted, I tried the following:
(1) Went "offline"
(2) Used "find" to locate folders.dbx (there wre 3, maybe one for each
identity) renamed them to "folder_old.dbx"
Tried this twice, crashes every time. However OE is still functioning
normally. Can anybody suggest a way to restore compacting? Thanks in advance.
sekharr
"Charlie Tame" wrote:

>
> "pwrichcreek" <pwrichcreek@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:80F94A1E-210E-4B6F-94BC-E995DAF0A339@microsoft.com...
>
> > It seems to me that if you could reset the howManyTimesHasOEBeenClosed
> > counter to zero, each time you started OE, automatic compaction would
> > never
> > occur. Then, when you observed whatever bad thing(s) starts to creep in
> > due
> > to not compacting, you could manually compact in a controlled environment,
> > such as a modified SAFE mode.
>
> Question answered in this paragraph. By the time you "Observe" bad things
> creeping in the damage is done and it's too late.
>
>
>