Re: Complaint about update system

"Steven Marzuola (remove wax and invalid for reply)"
<marzgroups@hal-pc.orgwax.invalid> wrote in message
news:%23IAxmHR5FHA.3876@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

> 2. Suggestion #1: Allow the user to postpone a reboot after a Windows
> update for longer than a few minutes, indefinitely even!

The default period of time to wait after /completion/ of the installation of
an update is five minutes. As Shenan noted, you brought part if this on
yourself by configuring your system to automatically install the updates. It
should also be noted that this automatic installation is done at a specified
time, so either somebody else has configured your system for you, or you're
enjoying the fruits of your own work. Change Automatic Updates back to Option
#3, and you'll be happier.

However, as to the actual question -- you can delay the time period from the
completion of updates to the initiation of the installation by adding these
registry values/data to the registry key at
HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUp date\AU

"RebootWarningTimeoutEnabled"=dword:0x1
"RebootWarningTimeout"=dword:0x1e (30 minutes, the maximum allowable value)

Also, if you are an Administrator on your machine, the system will also allow
you to "Reboot Later". By default, this prompt occurs every 10 minutes. You
can delay the time period for this prompt to recur after each click on "Reboot
Later" by adding these registry values/data to the registry key at
HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUp date\AU

"RebootRelaunchTimeoutEnabled"=dword:0x1
"RebootRelaunchTimeout"=dword:0x3c (60 minutes, the maximum allowable value
is 1440 minutes)

> 3. Suggestion #2: If the nature of the updates means that we really, really
> need to reboot right an update, then add a warning message to the Update
> notification feature. Something like: "If you choose to install this
> update, you will be required to reboot immediately after installation. Do
> you really want to do this?

Now.. this one.. is really off the wall. This has been the /NORMAL/ behavior
of Automatic Updates since the feature became available back in the days of
Windows 98. So to claim that you're 'unfamiliar' with this process either
means that this is the first time you've ever used a Windows computer, or
you've simply not been paying attention. (Or, as suggested in the response to
#2, you're not familiar with how your computer has been configured.)

> 4. Allow the user to tell Windows to wait until the screen saver turns on
> to reboot.

For the record... if you have an option to "Reboot Later", then the system
will /NEVER/ initiate a reboot while you're logged onto the system. If you're
getting a timeout counter (5 minutes), then you have /no/ options to delay the
restart.

I noted, also, that you posted your message at 3:40am Central Time.... could
it be that this is the first time you have ever been working at your system at
3am on Patch Tuesday????

This is a once-a-month event. It's fairly common knowledge. Updates are
published by Microsoft on the 2nd Tuesday of the month, and your system /will/
download those updates sometime before 5pm on Wednesday, and, by default,
Windows computers /will/ install those updates at 3am the morning following
the download (assuming the machine is powered on). You just got caught up in a
once-a-month event, that's probably been happening (unknown to you) for many
many months.

> ANYTHING would be preferable to the current method.

Lawrence:

True, Patch Tuesday is a special event. but unlike in the U.S. here in
Europe we can never be sure when these updates will be available. due to the
time shift (remember, earth is not a plain with America in the middle) it
might be tuesday noon, evening or even late wednesday morning until the
Windows Update service bites and launches the update installation. and please
allow me one more dumb question: why can only admins postpone the restart? in
the companies I and my team are working its mostly plain users that work on
their machines.
everything would be just fine if the average user would get the admin
messagebox for the restart and have a CHOICE.

"Berndl666" <Berndl666@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:AD2BCBB2-224A-4401-827C-3607B7F0F209@microsoft.com...
> Lawrence:
>
> True, Patch Tuesday is a special event. but unlike in the U.S. here in
> Europe we can never be sure when these updates will be available. due to the
> time shift (remember, earth is not a plain with America in the middle) it
> might be tuesday noon, evening or even late wednesday morning until the
> Windows Update service bites and launches the update installation.

Okay.. let me provide you with some /known/ information that will help you
"plan" accordingly.

First.... I'm told that MS generally releases this Patch Tuesday content in
the afternoon Pacific Time. That would make it approximately midnight
Wednesday GMT. I've been able to confirm this for the most part, as I moved my
WSUS server synchronization to 8pm CT (0200 GMT) and the content has always
been there for me at that time.

Second.... the design of the Windows Update Agent (and the AU client which
preceeded this rev) is to execute a detection for new updates every 22 hours
(minus a random offset of 1-20%). This means that the WUA actually contacts
the Microsoft Update (or SUS/WSUS servers) every 17.6-22 hours.

The net effect of that is that a client can /detect/ and /download/ the
updates at anytime during the 22 hours from the time Microsoft releases the
content (approx midnite GMT).

The /installation/ of the content, however, is entirely under the control of
the end-user and has ALWAYS been under the exclusive control of the end-user.
The end-user can:
(a) Schedule the updates to be installed at at given local time. By
default, this is 3am local time, so the actual installation will depend on
when the detection occurs and the download completes. For Europe, the greatest
percentage of clients will install at 3am local time on Thursday morning
(since it's not likely the detection and downloads will be completed by 3am
local time on Wednesday).
(b) Require the WUA to notify the user when updates are ready to be
installed, and install them interactively - thus also giving the user full
control over /when/ the system is rebooted -- if for no other reason than by
just givint them control over when the updates are /installed/.

By default, (a) is 3:00am local time, but can be set in one hour increments to
any time of day. The nature of the Windows Operating System architecture is
that updates will, quite likely, require a restart, and the WUA will restart
the computer five minutes after the completion of the installation of the
updates.

In fact, the idea of "installation" of the updates is a misnomer, because, in
reality, it is the /restart/ of the system that causes the actual
installation. The pre-reboot process merely stages the files in a temp folder,
so that script can copy them into place in the system32 folder /before/ those
files are loaded in the boot up process.

For a normal user, the restart after installation is enforced restart. For a
user with Administrative privileges, they'll also be presented with an option
to defer the restart.

In addition, the WUA has several options that can be configured via Group
Policy or Local Policy, even if the WUA is being used exclusively in an
Automatic Updates scenario (no SUS/WSUS server). These options include:
- extending the delay from completion of installation to initiation of
restart (up to 30 minutes).
- allowing a 'restart later' sceneario, with a recurring popup to reboot
(configurable up to 24 hours)
- scheduling of installations at a time convenient for the user
- scheduling of downloading of content at a time convenient for the user
(most typically useful for notebook users who are intermittently connected)
- the use of BITS for auto-restart of downloads in progress, as well as
the ability to throttle when and how much bandwidth is used to transfer
content
- the ability to execute "Install Updates and Shutdown" on Windows XP SP2
and Windows Server 2003 SP1 systems
- allowing or disallowing the installation of updates at powerup if the
'scheduled' installation cycle was missed

> and please
> allow me one more dumb question: why can only admins postpone the restart?

Because postponing the restart should /not/ be done in normal scenarios, and
regular users should not have that ability ot interfere with /necessary/
functionality of update management. The assumption (although quite dangerous)
is that Administrators have the requisite understanding of the implications of
delaying the restart of the system when updates are being installed. Let me
expressly enumerate these implications:
(1) Until the system is restarted, the updates is NOT installed, and the
system is NOT protected by the update.
(2) While the system is not restarted, the system COULD also be in an
unstable state if part of that update WAS installed and part of that update
was NOT installed.

Of course a BSOD will 'fix' the problem in (2) by forcing a reboot, thus
repairing the cause of the instability.

> in the companies I and my team are working its mostly plain users that work
> on
> their machines.
> everything would be just fine if the average user would get the admin
> messagebox for the restart and have a CHOICE.

Everything would be fine, also, if the product were used as originally
designed, which is to install update during non-working hours, and to not even
involve USERS in the process AT ALL!

However.. if you want the "average user" to have full permissions.... simply
enable the policy:
"Allow non-admins to receive update notifications".

Presto! Done!

And... it's /all/ documented.... just gotta read the docs. :-)

lawrence:
thanks for this really (and I mean it) comprehensive answer!
still i have the problem that in one of my client companys all users have
laptops (taking them home after hours etc... but surely not leaving them
connected and running 24/7, others being connected to data aquisition devices
that produce data at random intervals) and for bandwidth considerations we
were doomed to schedule the update at 12:00 noon (hoping that everybody
enjoyed her lunch break at that time). ok, they did, but of course their
moods decreased considerably when coming back to their desks finding their
work gone... what i just did not know until lately (and what triggered my
initial posting) is the difference between admin and user behaviour when it
comes to auto-restart. ok. lession learned the hard way.
one last thing:
you wrote:
- allowing a 'restart later' sceneario, with a recurring popup to reboot
(configurable up to 24 hours)
is this true for plain users as well? if yes, where can i set this up? is it
the allow non-admins... policy? it would be all i was dreaming about!

"Berndl666" <Berndl666@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:FED8EB6C-3FAD-4183-B158-7A08C74505E8@microsoft.com...
> lawrence:
> thanks for this really (and I mean it) comprehensive answer!

You're most welcome. I hope that it helps in some way.

> you wrote:
> - allowing a 'restart later' sceneario, with a recurring popup to reboot
> (configurable up to 24 hours)
> is this true for plain users as well?

No.. the "restart later" option is only available for Administrator or
Administrator-equivalent users.

> if yes, where can i set this up? is it
> the allow non-admins... policy? it would be all i was dreaming about!

For purposes of the /WUA/, you can give non-admin users "administrative"
permissions for interaction with the WUA by enabling the "Allow non-admins to
receive update notifications" policy. (This policy is enumerated as the
registy value "ElevateNonAdmins"=dword:0x1 in the key
HKLM\Software\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUp date)