Hi,
I hope someone can help. Oh, and if this isn't the right forum, could
someone point me in the right direction, please.

Running XP Professional SP2 on a desktop Athlon with 512 Mb ram. In the last
few weeks, Windows has started crashing, with them becoming more and more
frequent. Not the usual BSOD, but a complete and instantaneous return to the
BIOS, almost as if the power had been cut off for an instant. Naturally this
has resulted in lost data and disk problems with windows having to run
CHKDSK almost every time during reboot.


I'd almost suspect a intermittent hardware problem, but the triggers don't
seem to be entirely random. "Normal" use of the computer seems rarely to
cause this. However, when doing a complete anti-virus scan I invariably get
a crash, and it happens when _manually_ running CHKDSK. When I get these
crashes they sometimes occur two or three times in succession even during
reboot. Equally, it seems to happen when I have a lot of programs running at
the same time, busy doing their thing.

This obviously makes me suspicious. However I've never run my computer
without fully updated anti-virus sw. and up until the appearance of this
fault, used to run weekly regular complete av scans, finding nothing
dangerous (like everyone, from time to time I get attachments containing
them, but they get picked up and quarantined, and in any case I never click
on them).

I've tried booting in safe mode and running a/v checks. Still crashes. I've
checked my running processes, they are all innocuous, of the right size and
where they should be.

Can anyone suggest what the causes might be? The computer is almost exactly
three years old, so it's not exactly ancient. I have had to replace a power
supply, so I don't _think_ that's a likely candidate, and as I said the non
random nature of the crashes steers me away from a hardware problem. Could
it be a HD on the way out, where intense use of the disk as in scanning etc
causes the crash?

As you'll have gathered I'm not a complete novice when it comes to these
beasts, but this has me completely stumped.

Thanks in advance.

--
All the best, Ian
================================================== ============
"The Earth is degenerating today. Bribery
and corruption abound. Children no longer
obey their parents, every man wants to write
a book, and it is evident that the end of the
world is fast approaching."
- Assyrian tablet, c. 2800 BC

Ian Hoare wrote:

> Hi,
> I hope someone can help. Oh, and if this isn't the right forum, could
> someone point me in the right direction, please.
>
> Running XP Professional SP2 on a desktop Athlon with 512 Mb ram. In
> the last few weeks, Windows has started crashing, with them becoming
> more and more frequent. Not the usual BSOD, but a complete and
> instantaneous return to the BIOS, almost as if the power had been cut
> off for an instant. Naturally this has resulted in lost data and disk
> problems with windows having to run CHKDSK almost every time during
> reboot.
>
>
> I'd almost suspect a intermittent hardware problem, but the triggers
> don't seem to be entirely random. "Normal" use of the computer seems
> rarely to cause this. However, when doing a complete anti-virus scan I
> invariably get a crash, and it happens when _manually_ running CHKDSK.
> When I get these crashes they sometimes occur two or three times in
> succession even during reboot. Equally, it seems to happen when I have
> a lot of programs running at the same time, busy doing their thing.

Actually, it does sound like hardware. Here are general hardware
troubleshooting steps, but I'd start by testing the hard drive and then
the power supply.

1) Open the computer and run it open, cleaning out all dust bunnies and
observing all fans (overheating will cause system freezing). Obviously
you can't do this with a laptop, but you can hear if the fan is running
and feel if the laptop is getting too hot.

2) Test the RAM - I like Memtest86+ from www.memtest.org. Obviously, you
have to get the program from a working machine. You will either
download the precompiled Windows binary to make a bootable floppy or
the .iso to make a bootable cd. If you want to use the latter, you'll
need to have third-party burning software on the machine where you
download the file - XP's built-in burning capability won't do the job.
In either case, boot with the media you made. The test will run
immediately. Let the test run for an hour or two - unless errors are
seen immediately. If you get any errors, replace the RAM.

3) Test the hard drive with a diagnostic utility from the mftr. Download
the file and make a bootable floppy or cd with it. Boot with the media
and do a thorough test. If the drive has physical errors, replace it.

4) The power supply may be going bad or be inadequate for the devices
you have in the system. The adequacy issue doesn't really apply to a
laptop, although of course the power supply can be faulty.

5) Test the motherboard with something like TuffTest from
www.tufftest.com. Sometimes this is useful, and sometimes it isn't.

Testing hardware failures often involves swapping out suspected parts
with known-good parts. If you can't do the testing yourself and/or are
uncomfortable opening your computer, take the machine to a professional
computer repair shop (not your local equivalent of BigStoreUSA).

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Salut/Hi Malke,

Thanks very much for coming back so promptly.

le/on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 05:36:18 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>> I'd almost suspect a intermittent hardware problem, but the triggers
>> don't seem to be entirely random. "Normal" use of the computer seems
>> rarely to cause this. However, when doing a complete anti-virus scan I
>> invariably get a crash, and it happens when _manually_ running CHKDSK.

>Actually, it does sound like hardware. Here are general hardware
>troubleshooting steps, but I'd start by testing the hard drive and then
>the power supply.

Thanks for the steer. And thanks for the hint as to where to get the test
programs. This really is mysterious. Because I was looking to do a clean
install, and because a recent "slipstreamed" XP with SP2 wasn't working, I
re-downloaded SP2 complete. It went through without a murmur in less than 4
minutes at around 1000k/sec.
>
>1) Open the computer and run it open, cleaning out all dust bunnies and
>observing all fans (overheating will cause system freezing).

I've been running with the side open, as I've had a very noisy case
ventilation fan, it works fine, but every so often it has a silly moment and
starts rattling terribly which it does for a day until settling down again.
I've blown out all the dust, and will power down and do it again more
thoroughly.

>3) Test the hard drive with a diagnostic utility from the mftr. Download

>Testing hardware failures often involves swapping out suspected parts
>with known-good parts. If you can't do the testing yourself and/or are
>uncomfortable opening your computer, take the machine to a professional
>computer repair shop (not your local equivalent of BigStoreUSA).

As it happens I'll be going back to the Uk at the weekend, for 3 weeks. I
think that would be my best bet, though I'll try to make a start. All my
data is safely backed up at least.

Thanks again, though I'd appreciate a hint as to what to do to make a
bootable CD. I use Nero 6.

ATB
Ian

--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Ian Hoare wrote:
> Salut/Hi Malke,
>
> Thanks very much for coming back so promptly.
>snip<
> I've been running with the side open, as I've had a very noisy case
> ventilation fan, it works fine, but every so often it has a silly moment and
> starts rattling terribly which it does for a day until settling down again.
> I've blown out all the dust, and will power down and do it again more
> thoroughly.
>snip<

While it may appear to be running OK, a rattling sound may mean that the
bearings on that fan are going. This may cause the fan to run slower than
necessary thus reducing it's cooling capacity causing things to overheat.
Fans are cheap. Replace it.
Do you have a way to monitor your CPU temp?

gls858

Ian Hoare wrote:

> As it happens I'll be going back to the Uk at the weekend, for 3
> weeks. I think that would be my best bet, though I'll try to make a
> start. All my data is safely backed up at least.
>
> Thanks again, though I'd appreciate a hint as to what to do to make a
> bootable CD. I use Nero 6.

Hi, Ian. I don't like the rattling noise. You should replace that fan.
I'm not sure what you mean by how to make a bootable cd. Usually the
file you need to make a bootable cd - like for Memtest86+ or SeaTools
or the like - is an .iso. You d/l the .iso and in Nero choose to burn
an image file. Then just burn it.

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Salut/Hi Malke,

le/on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:43:37 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

>Ian Hoare wrote:
>
>> As it happens I'll be going back to the Uk at the weekend, for 3
>> weeks. I think that would be my best bet, though I'll try to make a
>> start. All my data is safely backed up at least.
>>
>> Thanks again, though I'd appreciate a hint as to what to do to make a
>> bootable CD. I use Nero 6.
>
>Hi, Ian. I don't like the rattling noise. You should replace that fan.

Agreed. I _will_ remove and replace the fan, they cost nothing and it would
be loony not to.

>I'm not sure what you mean by how to make a bootable cd. Usually the
>file you need to make a bootable cd - like for Memtest86+ or SeaTools
>or the like - is an .iso. You d/l the .iso and in Nero choose to burn
>an image file. Then just burn it.

Ah but not quite!

You see, I'd never explored the "lower reaches" of the burning options in
Nero, and I had no idea that one of them was "CD-ROM (boot)". So I kept
trying to burn a CD data disk and it wouldn't boot! In the end, I found
sufficiently detailed instructions. I know, I know, RTFM and all that, but
when you're working 16 hours a day slogging your way through 160 pages is
quite demanding.

All that to say that I've now burnt a bootable CD of WinXP slipstreamed, and
used it to build a new version of Windows on my newer, larger HD. Since
then, I've had not one single crash even when using my anti-virus to scan
the old C-drive - which was crashing the whole time and made me very
suspicious.

Win xP is now back up to speed, which is brilliant. The only boring part is
having to re-install all my old software. I've juggled around with the HD
allocations, so only C&D are reversed, which makes some things a bit easier.
I'm also taking the opportunity to work _with_ windows instead of against
it, as I now understand its logic better, as it differentiates between "my"
account, "default" account, "all users" and "administrator". Hey ho! Wish me
luck, and thanks very much indeed for your help.

When I've dealt (migrating some to C, archiving or delating many others)
with all 30k files on the old C drive, the 7k files on the E partition, the
21k files on the F partition, and the 3k files in H (just done that), I can
reformat C, and use that either to have a mirror, or else possibly to
experiment again with Linux.

Thanks again for your generous help.


--
All the Best
Ian Hoare
http://www.souvigne.com
mailbox full to avoid spam. try me at website

Ian Hoare wrote:

> Salut/Hi Malke,
>
> le/on Tue, 06 Dec 2005 16:43:37 -0800, tu disais/you said:-
>
>>Ian Hoare wrote:
>>
>>> As it happens I'll be going back to the Uk at the weekend, for 3
>>> weeks. I think that would be my best bet, though I'll try to make a
>>> start. All my data is safely backed up at least.
>>>
>>> Thanks again, though I'd appreciate a hint as to what to do to make
>>> a bootable CD. I use Nero 6.
>>
>>Hi, Ian. I don't like the rattling noise. You should replace that fan.
>
> Agreed. I _will_ remove and replace the fan, they cost nothing and it
> would be loony not to.
>
>>I'm not sure what you mean by how to make a bootable cd. Usually the
>>file you need to make a bootable cd - like for Memtest86+ or SeaTools
>>or the like - is an .iso. You d/l the .iso and in Nero choose to burn
>>an image file. Then just burn it.
>
> Ah but not quite!
>
> You see, I'd never explored the "lower reaches" of the burning options
> in Nero, and I had no idea that one of them was "CD-ROM (boot)". So I
> kept trying to burn a CD data disk and it wouldn't boot! In the end, I
> found sufficiently detailed instructions. I know, I know, RTFM and all
> that, but when you're working 16 hours a day slogging your way through
> 160 pages is quite demanding.
>
> All that to say that I've now burnt a bootable CD of WinXP
> slipstreamed, and used it to build a new version of Windows on my
> newer, larger HD. Since then, I've had not one single crash even when
> using my anti-virus to scan the old C-drive - which was crashing the
> whole time and made me very suspicious.
>
> Win xP is now back up to speed, which is brilliant. The only boring
> part is having to re-install all my old software. I've juggled around
> with the HD allocations, so only C&D are reversed, which makes some
> things a bit easier. I'm also taking the opportunity to work _with_
> windows instead of against it, as I now understand its logic better,
> as it differentiates between "my" account, "default" account, "all
> users" and "administrator". Hey ho! Wish me luck, and thanks very much
> indeed for your help.
>
> When I've dealt (migrating some to C, archiving or delating many
> others) with all 30k files on the old C drive, the 7k files on the E
> partition, the 21k files on the F partition, and the 3k files in H
> (just done that), I can reformat C, and use that either to have a
> mirror, or else possibly to experiment again with Linux.
>
> Thanks again for your generous help.
>
>
Lovely! I'm so glad you got everything sorted and I appreciate you
taking the time to let me know what happened. I still think you should
replace the fan if it's making noise. ;-)

Have a lot of fun!

Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User