Hi!

Amazing how long I've been using Windows XP without noticing the strange
ordering that it applies when you choose file sorting "by name" in Windows
Explorer... Instead of sorting character by character (so that
561<56k<571<5a1) it seems to recognise numbers composed of multiple digits,
so that 5a1<56k<57k<561<571 (just because 5 is less than 56 is less than 571).
Can anyone please tell me how to turn back to normal intuitive/ascii
character table alphabetic ordering? This has to be possible to do somewhere.
If not, I get really angry on the microsoft ppl...

I know they do it because sometimes you want 1<2<10<20 etc. But everybody
who really wants that can always add zeroes to get 01<02<10<20, THAT'S HOW
PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IN THE COMPUTER WORLD. This is really typical of the
microsoft mentality, inventing new things that are not only complicated but
also unwanted and then expect you to be grateful for it.
This is of no good at all - and as explained, totally unnecessary since one
could always add the zeroes in front. (It should also be slightly more
demanding of the computer if it has to recognise long numbers instead of just
comparing characters, of course a minor issue with today's computers, but yet
moer evidence of microsoft's part in the "programming crisis")

For me this ordering is disastrous since in my work I name some experiment
result files starting with a three-character shorthand notation of the date
the experiment was conducted. Thus, 561=1 June 2005, 571=1 July 2005, 56k=20
June 2005 and 5a1=1 October 2005. Normal, intuitive file name sorting would
thus yield correct chronological ordering of the files.
Also I was surprised at first to find that after data treatment, the file,
say, "result12" which was the average of "result1" and "result2" did not
position itself between result1 and result2 but came after result3.

I'm sure there are lots of better examples yet, because this is so totally
unbelievably weird!!!
Please someone tell me there is a checkbox -somewhere- (I have not found
that place yet) saying something like "turn off multiple character number
recognition in alphabetical file sorting"!

Erik D wrote:
> Amazing how long I've been using Windows XP without noticing the
> strange ordering that it applies when you choose file sorting "by
> name" in Windows Explorer... Instead of sorting character by
> character (so that 561<56k<571<5a1) it seems to recognise numbers
> composed of multiple digits, so that 5a1<56k<57k<561<571 (just
> because 5 is less than 56 is less than 571). Can anyone please tell
> me how to turn back to normal intuitive/ascii character table
> alphabetic ordering? This has to be possible to do somewhere. If not,
> I get really angry on the microsoft ppl...
>
> I know they do it because sometimes you want 1<2<10<20 etc. But
> everybody
> who really wants that can always add zeroes to get 01<02<10<20,
> THAT'S HOW PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IN THE COMPUTER WORLD. This is
> really typical of the microsoft mentality, inventing new things that
> are not only complicated but also unwanted and then expect you to be
> grateful for it.
> This is of no good at all - and as explained, totally unnecessary
> since one could always add the zeroes in front. (It should also be
> slightly more demanding of the computer if it has to recognise long
> numbers instead of just comparing characters, of course a minor issue
> with today's computers, but yet moer evidence of microsoft's part in
> the "programming crisis")
>
> For me this ordering is disastrous since in my work I name some
> experiment result files starting with a three-character shorthand
> notation of the date the experiment was conducted. Thus, 561=1 June
> 2005, 571=1 July 2005, 56k=20 June 2005 and 5a1=1 October 2005.
> Normal, intuitive file name sorting would thus yield correct
> chronological ordering of the files.
> Also I was surprised at first to find that after data treatment, the
> file, say, "result12" which was the average of "result1" and
> "result2" did not position itself between result1 and result2 but
> came after result3.
>
> I'm sure there are lots of better examples yet, because this is so
> totally unbelievably weird!!!
> Please someone tell me there is a checkbox -somewhere- (I have not
> found
> that place yet) saying something like "turn off multiple character
> number recognition in alphabetical file sorting"!

Research.. then RANT.

Use TweakUI...

TweakUI --> Explorer --> Use intuitive filename sorting

If this is checked the Explorer will sort files so that, for e.g. "File 5"
comes before "File 10" because 5 comes before 10. If this is unchecked then
Explorer will use literal sorting, in which case "File 10" will come before
"File 5" because 1 comes before 5.

Microsoft PowerToys for Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p.../powertoys.asp

More information:
-----
The Sort Order for Files and Folders Whose Names Contain Numerals Is
Different in Windows XP Than It Is in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/319827

Windows Explorer Incorrectly Sorts Files and Folders with 10 or
More Consecutive Numerals
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/318872

Change Sort Order in Windows Explorer
http://www.winguides.com/registry/display.php?id=1293

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

> For me this ordering is disastrous since in my work I name some experiment
> result files starting with a three-character shorthand notation of the
> date
> the experiment was conducted. Thus, 561=1 June 2005, 571=1 July 2005,
> 56k=20
> June 2005 and 5a1=1 October 2005. Normal, intuitive file name sorting
> would
> thus yield correct chronological ordering of the files.
> Also I was surprised at first to find that after data treatment, the file,
> say, "result12" which was the average of "result1" and "result2" did not
> position itself between result1 and result2 but came after result3.

The part I don't understand is that Explorer's just presenting a view of the
files sitting in the file system. Any automated process that enumerates
files shouldn't be influenced by Explorer's sort order.

I symapathise. I have also found this behaviour disturbing, although not as
disastrous as in your case

Luckily, I think there is a way. Not one that I know, but one of the experts
out there will no doubt reply. I think it some thing like "use Windows 98
style sorting" - but where ???

--
Cheers,
Trevor L.
Website: http://tandcl.homemail.com.au

Erik D wrote:
> Hi!
>
> Amazing how long I've been using Windows XP without noticing the
> strange ordering that it applies when you choose file sorting "by
> name" in Windows Explorer... Instead of sorting character by
> character (so that 561<56k<571<5a1) it seems to recognise numbers
> composed of multiple digits, so that 5a1<56k<57k<561<571 (just
> because 5 is less than 56 is less than 571). Can anyone please tell
> me how to turn back to normal intuitive/ascii character table
> alphabetic ordering? This has to be possible to do somewhere. If not,
> I get really angry on the microsoft ppl...
>
> I know they do it because sometimes you want 1<2<10<20 etc. But
> everybody
> who really wants that can always add zeroes to get 01<02<10<20,
> THAT'S HOW PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IN THE COMPUTER WORLD. This is
> really typical of the microsoft mentality, inventing new things that
> are not only complicated but also unwanted and then expect you to be
> grateful for it.
> This is of no good at all - and as explained, totally unnecessary
> since one could always add the zeroes in front. (It should also be
> slightly more demanding of the computer if it has to recognise long
> numbers instead of just comparing characters, of course a minor issue
> with today's computers, but yet moer evidence of microsoft's part in
> the "programming crisis")
>
> For me this ordering is disastrous since in my work I name some
> experiment result files starting with a three-character shorthand
> notation of the date the experiment was conducted. Thus, 561=1 June
> 2005, 571=1 July 2005, 56k=20 June 2005 and 5a1=1 October 2005.
> Normal, intuitive file name sorting would thus yield correct
> chronological ordering of the files.
> Also I was surprised at first to find that after data treatment, the
> file, say, "result12" which was the average of "result1" and
> "result2" did not position itself between result1 and result2 but
> came after result3.
>
> I'm sure there are lots of better examples yet, because this is so
> totally unbelievably weird!!!
> Please someone tell me there is a checkbox -somewhere- (I have not
> found
> that place yet) saying something like "turn off multiple character
> number recognition in alphabetical file sorting"!

Trevor L. wrote:
> I symapathise. I have also found this behaviour disturbing, although
> not as disastrous as in your case
>
> Luckily, I think there is a way. Not one that I know, but one of the
> experts out there will no doubt reply. I think it some thing like
> "use Windows 98 style sorting" - but where ???

Use TweakUI...

TweakUI --> Explorer --> Use intuitive filename sorting

If this is checked the Explorer will sort files so that, for e.g. "File 5"
comes before "File 10" because 5 comes before 10. If this is unchecked then
Explorer will use literal sorting, in which case "File 10" will come before
"File 5" because 1 comes before 5.

Microsoft PowerToys for Windows XP
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/p.../powertoys.asp

More information:
-----
The Sort Order for Files and Folders Whose Names Contain Numerals Is
Different in Windows XP Than It Is in Windows 2000
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/319827

Windows Explorer Incorrectly Sorts Files and Folders with 10 or
More Consecutive Numerals
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/318872

Change Sort Order in Windows Explorer
http://www.winguides.com/registry/display.php?id=1293

--
Shenan Stanley
MS-MVP
--
How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html

Maybe this will help:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=319827

S.

"Erik D" <ErikD@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:52D14CF6-B747-4148-BB72-5D4E50D95849@microsoft.com...
> Hi!
>
> Amazing how long I've been using Windows XP without noticing the strange
> ordering that it applies when you choose file sorting "by name" in Windows
> Explorer... Instead of sorting character by character (so that
> 561<56k<571<5a1) it seems to recognise numbers composed of multiple
digits,
> so that 5a1<56k<57k<561<571 (just because 5 is less than 56 is less than
571).
> Can anyone please tell me how to turn back to normal intuitive/ascii
> character table alphabetic ordering? This has to be possible to do
somewhere.
> If not, I get really angry on the microsoft ppl...
>
> I know they do it because sometimes you want 1<2<10<20 etc. But everybody
> who really wants that can always add zeroes to get 01<02<10<20, THAT'S HOW
> PEOPLE HAVE ALWAYS DONE IN THE COMPUTER WORLD. This is really typical of
the
> microsoft mentality, inventing new things that are not only complicated
but
> also unwanted and then expect you to be grateful for it.
> This is of no good at all - and as explained, totally unnecessary since
one
> could always add the zeroes in front. (It should also be slightly more
> demanding of the computer if it has to recognise long numbers instead of
just
> comparing characters, of course a minor issue with today's computers, but
yet
> moer evidence of microsoft's part in the "programming crisis")
>
> For me this ordering is disastrous since in my work I name some experiment
> result files starting with a three-character shorthand notation of the
date
> the experiment was conducted. Thus, 561=1 June 2005, 571=1 July 2005,
56k=20
> June 2005 and 5a1=1 October 2005. Normal, intuitive file name sorting
would
> thus yield correct chronological ordering of the files.
> Also I was surprised at first to find that after data treatment, the file,
> say, "result12" which was the average of "result1" and "result2" did not
> position itself between result1 and result2 but came after result3.
>
> I'm sure there are lots of better examples yet, because this is so totally
> unbelievably weird!!!
> Please someone tell me there is a checkbox -somewhere- (I have not found
> that place yet) saying something like "turn off multiple character number
> recognition in alphabetical file sorting"!