Vanguard wrote:
> "Opinicus" <gezgin@spamcop.net> wrote in message
> news:11rkm1sn55qut09@news.supernews.com...
>> "Vanguard" <vanguard.code@comcastNIX.net> wrote
>>
>>> can buy it with a power cord. The license is tied to that
>>> qualifying hardware. The EULA never states that the qualifying
>>> hardware's license gets
>>
>> Erm, I believe an OEM version is tied to the first *computer* that
>> it's installed on...
>
>
> It is tied to the qualifying hardware. Read the EULA. Mine says:
>
> "This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
> between you (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or computer
> system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired the Microsoft
> software product(s) identified on the Certificate of Authenticity
> ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or on the associated product
> documentation ("SOFTWARE")."
> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if the
> HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the computer
> system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE is a
> computer system component."

There is no such thing as qualifying hardware for OEM Office product.
According to the OEM agreement it can only be sold when installed on a new
system period. Perhaps you didn't click on the link in the OP and think the
thread is about OEM XP product :-)

Kerry

"Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in message
news:%23dJtrOIEGHA.1384@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Vanguard wrote:
>
>> "Opinicus" <gezgin@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>> news:11rkm1sn55qut09@news.supernews.com...
>>
>>> "Vanguard" <vanguard.code@comcastNIX.net> wrote
>>>
>>>> can buy it with a power cord. The license is tied to that qualifying
>>>> hardware. The EULA never states that the qualifying hardware's license
>>>> gets
>>>
>>>
>>> Erm, I believe an OEM version is tied to the first *computer* that it's
>>> installed on...
>>
>>
>>
>> It is tied to the qualifying hardware. Read the EULA. Mine says:
>>
>> "This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement between
>> you (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the manufacturer
>> ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or computer system component
>> ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired the Microsoft software product(s)
>> identified on the Certificate of Authenticity ("COA") affixed to the
>> HARDWARE or on the associated product documentation ("SOFTWARE")."
>>
>> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if the
>> HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the computer system
>> with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE is a computer system
>> component."
>>
>
> Then how do you explain that generic OEMs are sold in Spain legally
> without any hardware to be tied to?


Depends entirely on what is the actual contract that the OEM'er has with
Microsoft. Did you ever get to see their contract with Microsoft? Also,
and just as obvious, no one can sell anything under any condition within a
contract that is contrary to the laws prevailing in the location wherein the
sale occurs. Your contract to rent an apartment might say that you must
slaughter any Nazis, Jews, blacks, orientals, or any non-white races that
move into the apartment building but it is not a legal condition of that
contract (unless you happen to find a country where execution of that
condition is not contrary to law). Do you know what the laws of Spain are?
Are they federal laws or are you talking about some state laws? Do you even
know what laws somewhere in Spain would apply? Microsoft does business ALL
over the world. They don't get to rewrite the laws in all those countries.

"Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
news:OYJTQUIEGHA.1736@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> Vanguard wrote:
>> "Opinicus" <gezgin@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>> news:11rkm1sn55qut09@news.supernews.com...
>>> "Vanguard" <vanguard.code@comcastNIX.net> wrote
>>>
>>>> can buy it with a power cord. The license is tied to that
>>>> qualifying hardware. The EULA never states that the qualifying
>>>> hardware's license gets
>>>
>>> Erm, I believe an OEM version is tied to the first *computer* that
>>> it's installed on...
>>
>>
>> It is tied to the qualifying hardware. Read the EULA. Mine says:
>>
>> "This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
>> between you (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
>> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or computer
>> system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired the Microsoft
>> software product(s) identified on the Certificate of Authenticity
>> ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or on the associated product
>> documentation ("SOFTWARE")."
>> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if the
>> HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the computer
>> system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE is a
>> computer system component."
>
> There is no such thing as qualifying hardware for OEM Office product.
> According to the OEM agreement it can only be sold when installed on a new
> system period. Perhaps you didn't click on the link in the OP and think
> the thread is about OEM XP product :-)


Yep, yet another user that doesn't know how to read or, more correctly,
reads more into a contract than is there. I'm sure Microsoft won't mind
that you make their EULA more restrictive than they wrote it.

Have you ever bothered to call Microsft? Didn't think so. We run a $7M lab
and have checked with Microsoft what we can do and cannot do regarding
Microsoft-branded retail OEM version of Windows, and Microsoft gave us the
green light to move it around to other hosts whether they were rebuilds of
existing hosts or moving off one host to another one. Pre-built computers
are a different matter but we don't use any in our lab. For our
workstations, those of which are pre-builds, yep, the vendor-specific OEM
version does stick with that host. Unless Microsoft has changed their *new*
licenses lately (which cannot affect prior contracts for prior sales), we
were also allowed to changed motherboards.

Vanguard wrote:

> "Alias" <aka@[notme]maskedandanonymous.org> wrote in message
> news:%23dJtrOIEGHA.1384@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
>
>> Vanguard wrote:
>>
>>> "Opinicus" <gezgin@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>>> news:11rkm1sn55qut09@news.supernews.com...
>>>
>>>> "Vanguard" <vanguard.code@comcastNIX.net> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> can buy it with a power cord. The license is tied to that
>>>>> qualifying hardware. The EULA never states that the qualifying
>>>>> hardware's license gets
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Erm, I believe an OEM version is tied to the first *computer* that
>>>> it's installed on...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> It is tied to the qualifying hardware. Read the EULA. Mine says:
>>>
>>> "This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
>>> between you (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
>>> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or computer
>>> system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired the Microsoft
>>> software product(s) identified on the Certificate of Authenticity
>>> ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or on the associated product
>>> documentation ("SOFTWARE")."
>>>
>>> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if the
>>> HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the computer
>>> system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE is a
>>> computer system component."
>>>
>>
>> Then how do you explain that generic OEMs are sold in Spain legally
>> without any hardware to be tied to?
>
>
>
> Depends entirely on what is the actual contract that the OEM'er has with
> Microsoft. Did you ever get to see their contract with Microsoft?

Why would I want to see one? I am an end user and could care less. These
aren't OEMers. These are retail computer stores, not HP or Dell. If you
can understand Spanish, here are two of the largest:

http://www.pcbox.com/inicio/default.asp?lan=es&cnt=es

and

http://www.appinformatica.com/

Note that they list XP as "software", not "a licence to use software".
Also note that they sell Office OEM.

> Also, and just as obvious, no one can sell anything under any condition
> within a contract that is contrary to the laws prevailing in the
> location wherein the sale occurs. Your contract to rent an apartment
> might say that you must slaughter any Nazis, Jews, blacks, orientals, or
> any non-white races that move into the apartment building but it is not
> a legal condition of that contract (unless you happen to find a country
> where execution of that condition is not contrary to law). Do you know
> what the laws of Spain are? Are they federal laws or are you talking
> about some state laws? Do you even know what laws somewhere in Spain
> would apply? Microsoft does business ALL over the world. They don't
> get to rewrite the laws in all those countries.
>

All I know is that all the major computer stores only sell generic OEMs
and full retail versions are not available. These major computer stores
are chains that are located in every province of Spain. I would assume
they are following Spanish laws. This has been the case since XP came
out so I am sure that MS is well aware of it.

--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

Vanguard wrote:
> "Kerry Brown" <kerry@kdbNOSPAMsys-tems.c*a*m> wrote in message
> news:OYJTQUIEGHA.1736@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>> Vanguard wrote:
>>> "Opinicus" <gezgin@spamcop.net> wrote in message
>>> news:11rkm1sn55qut09@news.supernews.com...
>>>> "Vanguard" <vanguard.code@comcastNIX.net> wrote
>>>>
>>>>> can buy it with a power cord. The license is tied to that
>>>>> qualifying hardware. The EULA never states that the qualifying
>>>>> hardware's license gets
>>>>
>>>> Erm, I believe an OEM version is tied to the first *computer* that
>>>> it's installed on...
>>>
>>>
>>> It is tied to the qualifying hardware. Read the EULA. Mine says:
>>>
>>> "This End-User License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
>>> between you (either an individual or a single legal entity) and the
>>> manufacturer ("Manufacturer") of the computer system or computer
>>> system component ("HARDWARE") with which you acquired the Microsoft
>>> software product(s) identified on the Certificate of Authenticity
>>> ("COA") affixed to the HARDWARE or on the associated product
>>> documentation ("SOFTWARE")."
>>> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if the
>>> HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the computer
>>> system with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE is a
>>> computer system component."
>>
>> There is no such thing as qualifying hardware for OEM Office product.
>> According to the OEM agreement it can only be sold when installed on
>> a new system period. Perhaps you didn't click on the link in the OP
>> and think the thread is about OEM XP product :-)
>
>
> Yep, yet another user that doesn't know how to read or, more
> correctly, reads more into a contract than is there. I'm sure
> Microsoft won't mind that you make their EULA more restrictive than
> they wrote it.
> Have you ever bothered to call Microsft? Didn't think so. We run a
> $7M lab and have checked with Microsoft what we can do and cannot do
> regarding Microsoft-branded retail OEM version of Windows, and
> Microsoft gave us the green light to move it around to other hosts
> whether they were rebuilds of existing hosts or moving off one host
> to another one. Pre-built computers are a different matter but we
> don't use any in our lab. For our workstations, those of which are
> pre-builds, yep, the vendor-specific OEM version does stick with that
> host. Unless Microsoft has changed their *new* licenses lately
> (which cannot affect prior contracts for prior sales), we were also
> allowed to changed motherboards.

I have attended several Microsoft seminars on licensing. Here are some
relevant portions of the current OEM agreement.

"4. SOFTWARE DISTRIBUTION.
4.1 We grant you a nonexclusive right to distribute an individual software
license only with a fully assembled
computer system. A "fully assembled computer system" means a computer system
consisting of at least a central processing unit, a motherboard, a hard
drive, a power supply, and a case.
4.2 Each individual software license must be distributed pursuant to the
end-user license agreement ("EULA")
that accompanies the individual software license. Under the terms of the
EULA, you are the licensor."

"6. PREINSTALLATION REQUIREMENT. When you distribute an individual software
license for a desktop operating system or application software, you must
preinstall it on the fully assembled computer system’s hard drive using the
OEM Preinstallation Kit ("OPK") provided in this package or otherwise made
available by us. This preinstallation requirement does not apply to server
software. For a list of available OPKs, information about using
OEM preinstallation tools, OPK support and how to obtain OPKs, see
www.microsoft.com/oem/sblicense/OPK.
Preinstallation is limited to one copy of each individual software license.
You may not copy or modify the OPK or
OPK instructions. You may not distribute the OPK or OPK instructions to an
end user."

I understand that in certain cases for very large OEMs this agreement may be
slightly different but I have been assured by a Microsoft licensing
specialist that the essence is the same. OEM Offiice product cannot be sold
without installing it on a system. Once it is sold to the end user (your $7M
lab) Microsoft may make a seperate agreement with you.

In your post you refer to "Microsoft-branded retail OEM version of Windows"
There is no retail OEM version of Windows and the OP was not about OEM
Windows in any case.

Kerry

Kerry Brown wrote:

OEM Offiice product cannot be sold without installing it on a system. <<

Perhaps in your country this is true but I can buy Office OEMs with a
pretty MS box all day long without installing them on *anything*.

--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

Alias wrote:
> Kerry Brown wrote:
>
> OEM Offiice product cannot be sold without installing it on a system.
> <<
> Perhaps in your country this is true but I can buy Office OEMs with a
> pretty MS box all day long without installing them on *anything*.

You can here as well. That wasn't the point. The point was that technically
this is against the agreement the OEM entered into with Microsoft. If
Microsoft wanted to they could try to enforce this by a couple of different
methods, 1) quit selling to OEMs who break the agreement or 2) sue the OEMs
who break the agreement. The end user who purchases the software is doing
nothing wrong in this case. Possibly the OEM is doing nothing wrong as well.
To the best of my knowledge this particular agreement has never been tested
in court. Personally as an OEM I abide by the agreement for the simple
reason that I agreed to it. Obviously ethics differ among resellers.

Kerry

Kerry Brown wrote:

> Alias wrote:
>
>>Kerry Brown wrote:
>>
>>OEM Offiice product cannot be sold without installing it on a system.
>><<
>>Perhaps in your country this is true but I can buy Office OEMs with a
>>pretty MS box all day long without installing them on *anything*.
>
>
> You can here as well. That wasn't the point. The point was that technically
> this is against the agreement the OEM entered into with Microsoft. If
> Microsoft wanted to they could try to enforce this by a couple of different
> methods, 1) quit selling to OEMs who break the agreement or 2) sue the OEMs
> who break the agreement. The end user who purchases the software is doing
> nothing wrong in this case. Possibly the OEM is doing nothing wrong as well.
> To the best of my knowledge this particular agreement has never been tested
> in court. Personally as an OEM I abide by the agreement for the simple
> reason that I agreed to it. Obviously ethics differ among resellers.
>
> Kerry
>
>

When you consider that buying retail here is almost impossible, one
would think that the Spanish laws override the scammy EULA's, be they
for OEMs or end users.

--
Alias

Use the Reply to Sender feature of your news reader program to email me.
Utiliza Responder al Remitente para mandarme un mail.

"Vanguard" <vanguard.code@comcastNIX.net> wrote

>>> can buy it with a power cord. The license is tied to that qualifying
>>> hardware. The EULA never states that the qualifying hardware's license
>>> gets

>> Erm, I believe an OEM version is tied to the first *computer* that it's
>> installed on...

> It is tied to the qualifying hardware. Read the EULA. Mine says:

> "The term "COMPUTER" as used herein shall mean the HARDWARE, if the
> HARDWARE is a single computer system, or shall mean the computer system
> with which the HARDWARE operates, if the HARDWARE is a computer system
> component."

I draw your attention to the words "computer" (as a single computer system)
and to the phrase "the computer system with which the hardware operates, if
the hardware is computer system component".

An OEM version is tied to the FIRST COMPUTER that it's installed on.

MS have waffled a lot on the issue of OEM licenses but they've always been
consistent on one point: An OEM license is tied to the +first computer+ that
it's installed on.

--
Bob
http://www.kanyak.com

For the record after reading some of your post.

Yes, I was talking about the Microsoft office that was an example.
Which lead me to the case I mentioned below.

That why my post is titled OEMs can be sold according to this site


This affects all OEM not just Microsoft. Read the decision

http://linuxjournal.com/article/5628
If you find yourself paying for bundled proprietary software and don't
actually install it, you can legally resell it no matter what the
End-User License Agreement (EULA) says. That's what Judge Dean D.
Pregerson wrote in his "Order Re: Application For Preliminary
Injunction" in the case of Softman v. Adobe.


Any OEM software can be resold legally if it has not been installed.
Windows OEMs and all others.


Greg Ro