Hi Mike,

I don't disagree with much you have stated regarding recycling programs,
or for that matter the oceans being used as a toilet (I live in Victoria
BC, so I know all about that).

I also don't disagree that using OEM ink cartridges is the "safest" way
to go, but it is neither necessarily the more economical, nor the most
environmental approach.

Since HP may well be the most environmentally evolved of all the inkjet
companies, I don't want to point fingers at them, so I will instead keep
my comments more generic about inkjet cartridges, although I believe
they were the "inventors" of the "starter cartridge" which contained 50%
or less ink in the cartridges that first came with the printer.

Advancing beyond issues of whether people ruin their clothes and use bad
solvents to clean them (both of which are somewhat red herrings, IMHO),
let's look at the inkjet cartridges themselves.

Other than in the case of some of the Canon cartridges, most relatively
current models are no longer just a plastic box containing ink. Even
those had problems with being recycled (ink, foam rubber or batting,
plastic, rubber) but newer ones add additional issues. They are made up
of complex components that include several types of plastics, rubbers,
metals, epoxies, and other components making them very difficult to
recycle into anything but end of life product or junk. Adding to this,
they contain ink, which in some cases includes those solvents you spoke
of, colorants and other components that if heated can release toxic
gases. So, each time one of these cartridges is discarded and NOT
reused, it enters either the waste stream or a pretty dead ended
recycling stream, and the recycling stream is not a pretty sight, due to
the complexity and potential toxicity of the materials.

Epson's answer to "recycling" is to have the cartridges burned by a
third party and have them use some of the energy produced.

There is also the issue of all the packaging involved in each new
cartridge purchased, the cost of shipping them around, the human energy
costs in wholesaling, warehousing and retailing them, and more
importantly, the energy debt that occurs when a highly technical product
is made and later destroyed. The manufacturing plants, machines,
workers, etc, that goes into the production of these cartridges. The
cost of moving the cartridges around from one location to the next, the
lost materials when parts cannot be recycled or reclaimed, the cost to
convert the raw materials to a manufactured good and back to raw
material, etc. The cost of birth to death for high tech items is high.
It also has considerable economic impact, in terms of where jobs go, etc.

Things indeed are never as simple as they appear.

Art

(oh, if you insist... MS-MVP Printing and Imaging) ;-)


Mike Hall (MS-MVP) wrote:

> Noble sentiments, except that most who refill have ruined at least one item
> of clothing, used solvents of dubious ecological integrity in an attempt to
> remove ink stains off of clothing and hands, used solvents of dubious
> ecological integrity in an attempt to clean an intransigent print head, used
> more than one sheet of paper while trying to get a test page that shows all
> is well..
>
> Add to the above frustration at not being able to get the printer to produce
> anything meaningful, and maybe it is not such a good idea..
>
> In the meantime, some industrial companies are still contravening every
> ecological law, garbage and sewage is still being dumped into the oceans and
> landfill sites while nobody is looking, and the absolute worst is members of
> the general public dumping medications into their domestic effluent removal
> systems which then infect the entire water system, not only for re-use by
> us, but in a way that apparently renders sea life impotent.. way to go..
>
> While I accept that every little step taken is a good one, all is not always
> as it seems, and in many cases, one step forward is followed by a couple of
> backwards steps..
>
>

"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:KQZdf.505812$tl2.128578@pd7tw3no...
> Since HP may well be the most environmentally evolved of all the inkjet
> companies, I don't want to point fingers at them, so I will instead keep my
> comments more generic about inkjet cartridges, although I believe they were
> the "inventors" of the "starter cartridge" which contained 50% or less ink in
> the cartridges that first came with the printer.

I believe starter cartridges were introduced first by Lexmark.

- Bob Headrick

Bob Headrick wrote:

>"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
>news:KQZdf.505812$tl2.128578@pd7tw3no...
>
>
>>Since HP may well be the most environmentally evolved of all the inkjet
>>companies, I don't want to point fingers at them, so I will instead keep my
>>comments more generic about inkjet cartridges, although I believe they were
>>the "inventors" of the "starter cartridge" which contained 50% or less ink in
>>the cartridges that first came with the printer.
>>
>>
>
>I believe starter cartridges were introduced first by Lexmark.
>
> - Bob Headrick
>
>
COMPANIES THAT SELL THEIR PRINTERS WITH STARTER CARTS ARE BIG WHORES.

>
>
>

In article <Tjhef.13498$7h7.7555@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
inkystinky@oem.com says...
>
> >
> COMPANIES THAT SELL THEIR PRINTERS WITH STARTER CARTS ARE BIG WHORES.
>
> >
inkystinky (Measekite) admits to limited experience with printers, but
he seems very big on whores (perhaps his area of expertise)?
> >
>

You may well be correct. I tend to forget about Lexmark...

Art

Bob Headrick wrote:

> "Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
> news:KQZdf.505812$tl2.128578@pd7tw3no...
>
>>Since HP may well be the most environmentally evolved of all the inkjet
>>companies, I don't want to point fingers at them, so I will instead keep my
>>comments more generic about inkjet cartridges, although I believe they were
>>the "inventors" of the "starter cartridge" which contained 50% or less ink in
>>the cartridges that first came with the printer.
>
>
> I believe starter cartridges were introduced first by Lexmark.
>
> - Bob Headrick
>
>

measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>Bob Headrick wrote:
>
>>"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>news:KQZdf.505812$tl2.128578@pd7tw3no...
>>
>>
>>>Since HP may well be the most environmentally evolved of all the inkjet
>>>companies, I don't want to point fingers at them, so I will instead keep my
>>>comments more generic about inkjet cartridges, although I believe they were
>>>the "inventors" of the "starter cartridge" which contained 50% or less ink
>>>in
>>>the cartridges that first came with the printer.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I believe starter cartridges were introduced first by Lexmark.
>>
>> - Bob Headrick
>>
>>
>COMPANIES THAT SELL THEIR PRINTERS WITH STARTER CARTS ARE BIG WHORES.

You mean like Canon?
Tony

SO DOES EVERYBODY

Arthur Entlich wrote:

> You may well be correct. I tend to forget about Lexmark...
>
> Art
>
> Bob Headrick wrote:
>
>> "Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
>> news:KQZdf.505812$tl2.128578@pd7tw3no...
>>
>>> Since HP may well be the most environmentally evolved of all the
>>> inkjet companies, I don't want to point fingers at them, so I will
>>> instead keep my comments more generic about inkjet cartridges,
>>> although I believe they were the "inventors" of the "starter
>>> cartridge" which contained 50% or less ink in the cartridges that
>>> first came with the printer.
>>
>>
>>
>> I believe starter cartridges were introduced first by Lexmark.
>>
>> - Bob Headrick
>>
>>

TRY IT YALL LIKE IT

Zoroaster (formerly Zorro) wrote:

>In article <Tjhef.13498$7h7.7555@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com>,
>inkystinky@oem.com says...
>
>
>>COMPANIES THAT SELL THEIR PRINTERS WITH STARTER CARTS ARE BIG WHORES.
>>
>>
>>
>inkystinky (Measekite) admits to limited experience with printers, but
>he seems very big on whores (perhaps his area of expertise)?
>
>

Tony wrote:

>measekite <inkystinky@oem.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Bob Headrick wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>"Arthur Entlich" <e-printerhelp@mvps.org> wrote in message
>>>news:KQZdf.505812$tl2.128578@pd7tw3no...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Since HP may well be the most environmentally evolved of all the inkjet
>>>>companies, I don't want to point fingers at them, so I will instead keep my
>>>>comments more generic about inkjet cartridges, although I believe they were
>>>>the "inventors" of the "starter cartridge" which contained 50% or less ink
>>>>in
>>>>the cartridges that first came with the printer.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I believe starter cartridges were introduced first by Lexmark.
>>>
>>> - Bob Headrick
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>COMPANIES THAT SELL THEIR PRINTERS WITH STARTER CARTS ARE BIG WHORES.
>>
>>
>
>You mean like Canon?
>Tony
>
>
I BOUGHT MY CANON WITH FULL CARTS.

Tony <TonytheTigurrrrr@aim.com> wrote in
newsart1of1.1.T1zhNP#FMz0pvw@ue.ph:

>>COMPANIES THAT SELL THEIR PRINTERS WITH STARTER CARTS ARE BIG WHORES.
>
> You mean like Canon?
> Tony
>

I don't think my ip5000 came with starter carts.