How do we synchronize palm contacts with a plain old ASCII csv file?

Here's as much information as I think you'd need to help me:
--- BASICS:
- I maintain my personal contacts in EMACS (as a comma-delimited text
file)
- I use one line per contact with six fields
(last,first,cell,home,work,email)
- My phone is a Verizon Treo650 and I use 100% Verizon-supplied
software
- My operating system is Windows XP SP2
- I do not wish to mix personal contacts with business (i.e., Outlook)!

--- SOFTWARE:
- Verizon does not recommend the use of Chapura PocketMirror
- My Outlook conduit is the free Verizon Tre0650 Palm Conduit
- My desktop is the free Verizon Treo650 Palm Desktop 4.1E
- My hotsync manager is the free Verizon Treo650 HotSync Manager 6.0.1
- All three free software packages come from the Verizon website:
- http://www.palm.com/us/support/downl...ndesk414e.html

--- USEMODEL:
- I only wish to use Outlook for Calendaring at work because I must
- I only wish to use the Treo650 for personal telephone & business
calendaring
- I don't use the Palm Desktop for anything (that I know of)

--- OBSERVATIONS:
- Apparently I can syncronize with either Outlook or the Palm Desktop
- Apparently I can not synchronize with both Outlook & the Palm Desktop
- I do not know how to synchronize with a plain old ASCII text csv
file!

--- FILES:
- I have no problem maintaining my contacts in EMACS as a flat csv file
- I've been maintaining my contacts in that ASCII file for over twenty
years
- All I want is to synchronize (both ways) that file with my Treo650
pda cellphone

--- PROBLEM:
How do we synchronize our PDA telephone (both ways) with a c:\phone.csv
file?

> How do we synchronize palm contacts with a plain old ASCII csv file?
> How do we synchronize our Palm PDA with a c:\phone.csv file?

I forgot to mention that, as a lousy workaround, I imported the csv
file into Outlook as a Contact and that is how I currently synchronize
my c:\phone.csv file with my Treo650 PDA.

--- MY (lousy) WORKAROUND:
1. First I edit my phone.csv file in EMACS to make any additions or
deletions.
2. Then I import that phone.csv file into Outlook 2002 (multiple silly
steps).
3. Then I synchronize with the Treo650
4. I then immediately delete the Outlook contacts

This (lousy workaround) keeps private data separate from company data.
Why can't I just synchronize with the ASCII text csv file I've been
maintaining for over 20 years?
What key step am I missing?

Note: All I want Outlook for is calendaring (which is mandatory at my
company).
Note: All I want the Treo650 Palm PDA for is telephony & calendaring.
Note: I'm perfectly happy maintaining my phone.csv file using EMACS.

Do you know how to synchronize contacts with a plain old ASCII csv text
file?

On 2 Dec 2005 19:57:45 -0800, uyhujik@yahoo.com wrote:

>> How do we synchronize palm contacts with a plain old ASCII csv file?

It can't be done. Nobody can syncronize to a plaintext file.

I ran a search to find a lot of people ask for this but nobody can
syncronize to a file of any fomat.

The only way to syncronize is to the desktop or to outlook, both of
which are not what you asked for.

On 2 Dec 2005 19:57:45 -0800, uyhujik@yahoo.com wrote:

>> How do we synchronize palm contacts with a plain old ASCII csv file?
>> How do we synchronize our Palm PDA with a c:\phone.csv file?
>
>I forgot to mention that, as a lousy workaround, I imported the csv
>file into Outlook as a Contact and that is how I currently synchronize
>my c:\phone.csv file with my Treo650 PDA.
>
>--- MY (lousy) WORKAROUND:
>1. First I edit my phone.csv file in EMACS to make any additions or
>deletions.
>2. Then I import that phone.csv file into Outlook 2002 (multiple silly
>steps).
>3. Then I synchronize with the Treo650
>4. I then immediately delete the Outlook contacts
>
>This (lousy workaround) keeps private data separate from company data.
>Why can't I just synchronize with the ASCII text csv file I've been
>maintaining for over 20 years?
>What key step am I missing?
>
>Note: All I want Outlook for is calendaring (which is mandatory at my
>company).
>Note: All I want the Treo650 Palm PDA for is telephony & calendaring.
>Note: I'm perfectly happy maintaining my phone.csv file using EMACS.
>
>Do you know how to synchronize contacts with a plain old ASCII csv text
>file?

Palm doesn't understand "plain old ASCII".
It's not DOS/Windows/Linux; it doesn't have a *real* file system; and
it doesn't read/write text files.
Welcome to Palm OS ;-)

The Palm Desktop can import csv files into Contacts (check that the
field order is correct) and they will be transferred to the Palm when
you HotSync.

John

John wrote:
> On 2 Dec 2005 19:57:45 -0800, uyhujik@yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>> How do we synchronize palm contacts with a plain old ASCII csv file?
>>> How do we synchronize our Palm PDA with a c:\phone.csv file?
>>
>> I forgot to mention that, as a lousy workaround, I imported the csv
>> file into Outlook as a Contact and that is how I currently
>> synchronize my c:\phone.csv file with my Treo650 PDA.
>>
>> --- MY (lousy) WORKAROUND:
>> 1. First I edit my phone.csv file in EMACS to make any additions or
>> deletions.
>> 2. Then I import that phone.csv file into Outlook 2002 (multiple
>> silly steps).
>> 3. Then I synchronize with the Treo650
>> 4. I then immediately delete the Outlook contacts
>>
>> This (lousy workaround) keeps private data separate from company
>> data. Why can't I just synchronize with the ASCII text csv file I've
>> been maintaining for over 20 years?
>> What key step am I missing?
>>
>> Note: All I want Outlook for is calendaring (which is mandatory at my
>> company).
>> Note: All I want the Treo650 Palm PDA for is telephony & calendaring.
>> Note: I'm perfectly happy maintaining my phone.csv file using EMACS.
>>
>> Do you know how to synchronize contacts with a plain old ASCII csv
>> text file?
>
> Palm doesn't understand "plain old ASCII".

To expect to sync--not just import--a text file you originally created
two-decades-ago is a bit unrealistic. I won't get into why someone
maintains such a bare-minimum list (5 fields?) to sync with a *PDA*
phone--when using a Windows XP PC of all things.

There are of course other work-arounds to the apparent issue of not
wanting to intermingle business calendar with personal contacts (though
I wonder what happens if one needs to call one of the attendees of an
upcoming calendar event when you don't have their phone number--call
information?).

Regardless, it's clear the only solution the OP is looking for is one
that syncs his decades-old CSV "database" to Palm's internal Contacts
database.


> It's not DOS/Windows/Linux; it doesn't have a *real* file system; and
> it doesn't read/write text files.

What is FATFS.prc doing and how is NVFS memory formatted?


--
Mike

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:06:01 -0700, Tinman wrote:
>>> Why can't I just synchronize with the ASCII text csv file I've
>>> been maintaining for over 20 years?
> To expect to sync--not just import--a text file you originally created
> two-decades-ago is a bit unrealistic.

What are you talking about?

I maintained (note the word maintain) many databases over the years some of
which are apparently older than you are. That means they are up to date!
The word "maintain" means they are up to date. That means Uncle Joe and
Sister Susaan and High School Friend Bill are all up to date in the
database. It's the database that is important - not the platform of the day
(these PDAs are just a passing fad as I've seen many in my years).

What makes you so cocky as to presume that one can only synchronize
brand-new databases? Are you fourteen years old and therefore Windows
Outlook is the only platform you have ever known?

I've maintained databases (yes, phone lists too) starting with the IBM 370
and migrating them to the 8-inch floppy disks on DEC VMS and on to magtape
on the early Suns before moving to the Macintosh PC (up to OS8) finally on
to the new fangled IBM AT computer (at about the 80186 and 80286 & 80386
point) and onward (ever onward) up the line of DOS's & OS's like OS2 and NT
to the ephemeral style of the day today. Windows and Linux are here for
today but they, like all the others, will just be wisps in the wind five,
ten, or twenty years from now.

But, my simple record-oriented character-delimited telephone list will
still be maintained and up to date.

Who are you to presume that it is unrelistic to maintain a telephone list
of your family and friends up to date?

> There are of course other work-arounds to the apparent issue of not
> wanting to intermingle business calendar with personal contacts

I think that is precisely what the OP asked for.

On Sat, 03 Dec 2005 18:54:40 -0500, John wrote:
> Palm doesn't understand "plain old ASCII".
> it doesn't read/write text files.
> The Palm Desktop can import csv files into Contacts

I'm confused John about the apparent contradiction in your statement above.

Obviously you know that a csv file is "plain old ascii".
Obviously the palm pda can import this plain old ascii file csv file.

How can the palm os import and not import the same file?

Anthony Susa wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 11:06:01 -0700, Tinman wrote:
>>>> Why can't I just synchronize with the ASCII text csv file I've
>>>> been maintaining for over 20 years?
>> To expect to sync--not just import--a text file you originally
>> created two-decades-ago is a bit unrealistic.
>
> What are you talking about?
>

What is so hard to understand? I assumed anyone with an IQ above room
temperature, who had any knowledge of computers at all, would not need
further clarification.


> I maintained (note the word maintain)

Yes. In particularly, I noted that you seem to have little grasp of the
concept of "tense."


> many databases over the years
> some of which are apparently older than you are.

I see. Might I assume you used the Psychic Friends Network to ascertain
how old I am? Or did you just make another blind uneducated guess?


> That means they are
> up to date! The word "maintain" means they are up to date. That means
> Uncle Joe and Sister Susaan and High School Friend Bill are all up to
> date in the database.

Noooo? Really? In my world, where I actually use a Treo 650, I have
these little things like addresses, email addresses--and much more--that
I'd like to be able to access for each contact right on my Treo--yep,
even personal contacts. How can I do that with five fields?


> It's the database that is important - not the
> platform of the day (these PDAs are just a passing fad as I've seen
> many in my years).
>

The post was about a PDA phone. But don't let that fact stop you while
you are on a roll...


> What makes you so cocky as to presume that one can only synchronize
> brand-new databases? Are you fourteen years old and therefore Windows
> Outlook is the only platform you have ever known?
>

Yep, I'm fourteen-years-old and Outlook is the only platform I've ever
know. You are physic, aren't you?


>
> But, my simple record-oriented character-delimited telephone list will
> still be maintained and up to date.
>
> Who are you to presume that it is unrelistic to maintain a telephone
> list of your family and friends up to date?
>

In a digital world you either keep up or become a dinosaur (not that I
am calling anyone a dinosaur--I surely would never do that).


>> There are of course other work-arounds to the apparent issue of not
>> wanting to intermingle business calendar with personal contacts
>
> I think that is precisely what the OP asked for.

Then by all means tell him the answer!


--
Mike

On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 16:06:28 -0700, Tinman wrote:
> Noooo? Really? In my world, where I actually use a Treo 650, I have
> these little things like addresses, email addresses--and much more--that
> I'd like to be able to access for each contact right on my Treo--yep,
> even personal contacts. How can I do that with five fields?

Uh, so you add fields to your text file. What's the big deal.

last,name,middle,company,title,address,phone,cell, fax,email,, CR
last,,first,,title,address,phone,cell,fax,email,bi rthday, CR
last,,first,company,,address,phone,cell,fax,email, ,cell2 CR
etc.

My ascii text databases can have as many fields as they like. Each field is
delimited by a semicolon (instead of a comma) and each record is delimited
by a carriage return. What's so hard about that? This simplicity allows for
as many fields as you care to maintain and the databases last for decades
like any good database should. In fact, an ascii text database (csv if you
will) has no wear-out mechanism so they don't depend on fashions as
ephemeral as the platform of the day (and I've seen dozens of these
platfoms, currently Outlook & Palm, come and go over time yet the time
honored ascii databases remain as long as they are maintained properly).

>> I think that is precisely what the OP asked for.
> Then by all means tell him the answer!

I think it's clear that neither you nor I know how to synchronize a palm
pda to a single contacts file. Unfortunately, we're the only ones posting,
which isn't going to help anyone else but feed our egos to see our names in
print.

I, for one, suspect there is a trivially simple way to synchronize a palm
pda contact file with an ascii text (csv if you will) character-delimited
contacts file - but I don't know how.

Does anyone anywhere know how to synchronize a palm pda to a contacts file
without using outlook or the palm desktop? I certainly don't.

Anthona Susa wrote:
> On Sun, 4 Dec 2005 16:06:28 -0700, Tinman wrote:
>> Noooo? Really? In my world, where I actually use a Treo 650, I have
>> these little things like addresses, email addresses--and much
>> more--that I'd like to be able to access for each contact right on
>> my Treo--yep, even personal contacts. How can I do that with five
>> fields?
>
> Uh, so you add fields to your text file.

"My" text file? Uh, no. The OP was the one who clearly indicated the
number of '80s-era fields he uses (though it is 6, not 5--presumably the
'90s brought about a monumental schema change in order to accommodate
cellphone numbers ;-)).


> My ascii text databases can have as many fields as they like.

As I'm rather certain your text files are not self-aware, it might be
better to state that your databases can have as many fields as you
like--and even then that's only if the app reading them supports an
"infinite" number of fields.

But seriously, did you really not comprehend it was the OP using 6
fields by choice?


> In
> fact, an ascii text database (csv if you will) has no wear-out
> mechanism so they don't depend on fashions as ephemeral as the
> platform of the day (and I've seen dozens of these platfoms,
> currently Outlook & Palm, come and go over time yet the time honored
> ascii databases remain as long as they are maintained properly).
>

Any good database application will have forward and backward
portability. Last I checked both Outlook, Palm Desktop, and hundreds--if
not thousands--of other applications can both import and export CSV
files (as well as other formats--e.g., DBF). The same is true for most
enterprise database applications.

This ain't rocket surgery. And whether it is a DVD, CD, floppy disk, or
50-year-old magnetic tape a future human being will simply not be able
to read it without the use of a machine. Period.


>>> I think that is precisely what the OP asked for.
>> Then by all means tell him the answer!
>
> I think it's clear that neither you nor I know how to synchronize a
> palm pda to a single contacts file.

You have no idea what I know; or do not know. I'm not even sure you
fully understand the issue with syncing--not just overwriting--a 6 field
ASCII CSV data file with the Treo 650's native Contacts app. This
appears to be what the OP is wanting to do.


> Unfortunately, we're the only
> ones posting,
> which isn't going to help anyone else but feed our egos
> to see our names in print.
>

For the record, I did not intend to get into this debate. In my first
post to this thread (which was not to the OP), I stated "I won't get
into why someone maintains such a bare-minimum list (5 fields?) to sync
with a PDA phone--when using a Windows XP PC of all things." [should
have been "6 fields"]

I'll have to assume you took that to mean I really did want to get into
it, and that I have no knowledge of CSV/TSV files whatsoever.


> I, for one, suspect there is a trivially simple way to synchronize a
> palm pda contact file with an ascii text (csv if you will)
> character-delimited contacts file - but I don't know how.
>

"Trivially simply?" The OP is apparently asking to sync a 6 field ASCII
CSV file to the Treo's Contacts app. Further he seems to want to still
use EMACS to maintain that file on the PC-side (i.e., he wants real
syncing).

Considering the 6 fields now contained in the file, how exactly is this
"trivial" conduit supposed to know when a specific record has been
updated by the Treo so it can update the correct record on the PC? Can
we add a field to indicate a record's data is dirty--and what will EMACS
do with such a field if a record is updated by EMACS?

Or, is the conduit supposed to compare the entire text file to look for
changes? If so, can it target specific records? And how will the conduit
reliably identify records? By Record ID? If the CSV file doesn't contain
it, it will need to be created in the Contact's database. Will this
Record ID propagate back to the CSV file? Where? How will EMACS maintain
it, particularly on new records. Will it enforce this key?

So while a sync conduit for CSV files may be possible, I don't think
it's as easy as you think--especially if EMACS is still going to be used
to edit the file on the PC-side. And for a true--and reliable--sync the
file will need additional fields (and I don't mean an extra email
address or two).

All of these hurdles in order to cling to a decades-old CSV file? Fine.
Have fun with it.


--
Mike