Can Outlook be forced to respect csv format for Palm PDA use?

How do we force Outlook to respect csv syntax upon export?

I get a wholly different if I simply import a csv file to Outlook and then
immediately export from Outlook to a csv file!

The exported csv file looks absolutely nothing like the input csv file.

Since I use the original csv file as my master contact list, it's important
to maintain its integrity, despite Outlook shenanigans to the contrary.

Am I doing something wrong (perhaps a missed setting in Outlook that says
please respect the csv format)?

How do you get Microsoft Outlook 2003 on WinXP to respect the csv syntax
upon export from Outlook contacts?

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:45:10 GMT, Anthony Susa wrote:
> How do you get Microsoft Outlook 2003 on WinXP to respect the csv syntax
> upon export from Outlook contacts?

By way of example, try this 3-line test:

Test: Import this 3-line csv file into MS Outlook Contacts:
LAST,FIRST,HOME,WORK,CELL,EMAIL
Susa,Anthony,650-354-0974,408-365-4500,650-438-7744,susa@dancris.com
Susa,Josephine,650-354-0974,650-450-3300,650-438-7743,jypcy54@aol.com

Immediately export back out to a csv file. Contrary to what you'd think,
you get absolutely nothing anything like the original file. The output file
is over 20 lines long and it contains a tremendous amount of repeated
garbage. In fact, despite the command to output to a csv file, the output
isn't even a csv file. It's some strange ASCII Microsoft format.

Is there any way to force Outlook to output contacts to a normal csv file?

Anthony Susa wrote:

> On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:45:10 GMT, Anthony Susa wrote:
>> How do you get Microsoft Outlook 2003 on WinXP to respect the csv syntax
>> upon export from Outlook contacts?
>
> By way of example, try this 3-line test:
>
> Test: Import this 3-line csv file into MS Outlook Contacts:
> LAST,FIRST,HOME,WORK,CELL,EMAIL
> Susa,Anthony,650-354-0974,408-365-4500,650-438-7744,susa@dancris.com
> Susa,Josephine,650-354-0974,650-450-3300,650-438-7743,jypcy54@aol.com
>
> Immediately export back out to a csv file. Contrary to what you'd think,
> you get absolutely nothing anything like the original file. The output
> file is over 20 lines long and it contains a tremendous amount of repeated
> garbage. In fact, despite the command to output to a csv file, the output
> isn't even a csv file. It's some strange ASCII Microsoft format.
>
> Is there any way to force Outlook to output contacts to a normal csv file?

What version of Outlook? Just tried this with 2K3 and it works as expected,
with text fields surrounded with quotation marks. Note that it exports the
_entire_ contact list and not just the new entries.

Also I hope that those weren't your _real_ phone numbers etc.

--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)

Anthony Susa wrote:
> On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:45:10 GMT, Anthony Susa wrote:
>> How do you get Microsoft Outlook 2003 on WinXP to respect the csv
>> syntax upon export from Outlook contacts?
>
> By way of example, try this 3-line test:
>

Anthony, first, I hope those weren't actual phone numbers!

Second, contrary to one of your earlier posts--where you indicated the
process would take 5 seconds--it's not as simple as you think.

For one thing, Outlook, by default, will export *all* Contact fields to
the CSV file. If you don't want each field, you have to create the
proper map, placing the correct fields in the correct order--each time
you perform the export (time consuming--and the process must be reversed
for each import). Further, Outlook, by default, places the field names
in the first row of the CSV file. I don't know whether this can be
turned off, but I suspect not.

Palm Desktop works similar to Outlook (you must map the fields each
time), but it does not add field names to the first row of the CSV file.

But I am puzzled because in a prior post you seemed to indicate you were
already doing this:
"In my working environment, I hotsync by cable every morning and
afternoon as I arrive and leave from work. During the work day, I modify
the master.csv file (if necessary). The computer is actually a Linux
server tied to the desktop PC via Samba. At the end of the work day, I
download those changes (if any) to the Palm PDA. When I'm away from the
office, I modify the Palm pda contact list. Back at work, I upload those
changes and the cycle resumes."

How exactly were you accomplishing this?


--
Mike | Have you ever imagined a world with no
| hypothetical situations?

Just as an aside, there unfortunately is no singular universal "standard"
for how CSV files are or should be created in generic terms and there is no
single right way to create a CSV file. Different programs create different
variations - some include a "qualifier" around every field such as a double
or single quote, others only use a qualifier if the delimiter character is
included within a field (and the delimitor is not necessarily a comma, it in
fact is the system's list separator character - ergo for Europe depending on
the system's regional setting - the system's separator character in many
cases is the semi-colon). The variations go on but the MS Office products
are the most forgiving and complete of all the products we've seen that deal
with CSV files (especially when it comes to multi-line fields within a row
that contain embedded "end-of-line" characters). The safest approach is to
surround each field by a qualifier. For North American regional settings,
that generally is the double quote character which is what Outlook does when
you export data to CSV format.

Outlook does not provide the same kinds of CSV import/export options (in
terms of structure) you'd find in something like MS Access. If you have MS
Access, export a table from it to text/csv format and you will get a fairly
good what I'm referring to above.

In the case of the example in your message - the file would be "broken" if
the qualifier did not surround the field - something that whatever program
you're using to manage the file would have to support. Import programs can't
assume that the data being imported won't break rules somewhere along the
line.

Lastly, in terms of "In fact, despite the command to output to a csv file,
the output isn't even a csv file. It's some strange ASCII Microsoft
format." - not exactly sure what you mean by that sentence (you didn't
mention your regional settings or language used on the particular system,
some or all of which could have a bearing on the issue). Did you mean that
you cannot read the characters in the file created?

Karl

__________________________________________
Karl Timmermans - The Claxton Group
ContactGenie - Importer 1.3 / DataPorter 2.0
"Power contact importers for MS Outlook '2000/2003"
http://www.contactgenie.com



"Anthony Susa" <Susa.J.Anth...@neosporum.com> wrote in message
news:1p07jmlb1wf6l$.9wywh2zrd7kn.dlg@40tude.net...
> On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 06:45:10 GMT, Anthony Susa wrote:
>> How do you get Microsoft Outlook 2003 on WinXP to respect the csv syntax
>> upon export from Outlook contacts?
>
> By way of example, try this 3-line test:
>
> Test: Import this 3-line csv file into MS Outlook Contacts:
> LAST,FIRST,HOME,WORK,CELL,EMAIL
> Susa,Anthony,650-354-0974,408-365-4500,650-438-7744,susa@dancris.com
> Susa,Josephine,650-354-0974,650-450-3300,650-438-7743,jypcy54@aol.com
>
> Immediately export back out to a csv file. Contrary to what you'd think,
> you get absolutely nothing anything like the original file. The output
> file
> is over 20 lines long and it contains a tremendous amount of repeated
> garbage. In fact, despite the command to output to a csv file, the output
> isn't even a csv file. It's some strange ASCII Microsoft format.
>
> Is there any way to force Outlook to output contacts to a normal csv file?

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 05:29:45 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
> What version of Outlook? Just tried this with 2K3 and it works as expected,
> with text fields surrounded with quotation marks. Note that it exports the
> _entire_ contact list and not just the new entries.
> Also I hope that those weren't your _real_ phone numbers etc.

My version of Microsoft Outlook is Outlook 2003 (is that a version?).
When I export a CSV file, I get many lines per record, with the field
identifiers and an equal sign ... none of which is in the original csv
file.

Maybe I'm outputting the CSV file wrongly?

Is there a difference between a DOS csv file and a Windows CSV file?

Tony Susa

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 12:05:05 -0700, Tinman wrote:
> But I am puzzled because in a prior post you seemed to indicate you were
> already doing this:
> "In my working environment, I hotsync by cable every morning and
> afternoon as I arrive and leave from work. During the work day, I modify
> the master.csv file (if necessary). The computer is actually a Linux
> server tied to the desktop PC via Samba. At the end of the work day, I
> download those changes (if any) to the Palm PDA. When I'm away from the
> office, I modify the Palm pda contact list. Back at work, I upload those
> changes and the cycle resumes."
>
> How exactly were you accomplishing this?

Hi Tinman,

I do thank you for all your help and advice as do many others who lurk
here.

In one of my posts I said it was working except for a "minor glitch" (see
http://groups.google.com/group/comp....19b85dc4587bd8)
which I found with a google groups search for "Tony Susa minor glitch".

This is the minor glitch.

I have to hand edit the exported CSV file from Outlook to get it into the
csv format of the input file. Luckily it's not hard as I'm a whiz at text
editing so it only takes a short while ... but you can see why I am asking
for how to export the same csv file out of Outlook as I imported.

From the helpful responses here, it seems that there MUST be a way to
export a csv file out of Microsoft Outlook 2003 where the format is the
same as the input format of:

Are you SURE you can import a 3-line CSV file into Outlook and then export
the same format file? I can't. (Maybe I'm just dumb or more than likely
ignorant, but I just can't sem to figure out how to do that, hence this
question).

Tony Susa

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 05:29:45 -0500, J. Clarke wrote:
>> Is there any way to force Outlook to output contacts to a normal csv file?
> Just tried this with 2K3 and it works as expected,
> with text fields surrounded with quotation marks.

Hi J. Clarke,

I forgot to ask. Does it export just the VALUE of the fields or both the
value and the FIELD IDENTIFIER?

In my case, I get the Field Identifier (all with quotes that I'll omit),
e.g.,
LAST NAME = Susa
FIRST NAME = Anthony
etc.

Instead of what I gave it:
Susa,Anthony,etc.

The question, which seems to be answered by a "No" is whether or not
Outlook can input a one-line csv file of the format:
last,first,cell,home,work,email
and output the same one line csv file.

If Outlook can output csv, I can't find how; hence, this quest.

Tony Susa

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:01:18 -0500, Karl Timmermans wrote:
> Just as an aside, there unfortunately is no singular universal "standard"
> for how CSV files are or should be created in generic terms and there is no
> single right way to create a CSV file.

Indeed. That's why I ask if Outlook can input a csv file of the Excel
one-line-per-record format and then output that same format.

If it can, I can't get Outlook to do it.

For exmaple, this one-line input file is written out by Excel:
"last","first","cell","home","work","email"

That one-line Excel csv file is imported by Outlook 2003 fine.
And, it is transferred to the Palm PDA (Treo650) just fine.

Yet, Outlook is the only program that doesn't output back that same file.
The output from Outlook looks absolutely nothing like the one-line input.

Hence my question to the experts (I am decidedly, NOT, an expert),
Tony Susa

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 02:01:18 -0500, Karl Timmermans wrote:
> Lastly, in terms of "In fact, despite the command to output to a csv file,
> the output isn't even a csv file. It's some strange ASCII Microsoft
> format." - not exactly sure what you mean by that sentence (you didn't
> mention your regional settings or language used on the particular system,
> some or all of which could have a bearing on the issue). Did you mean that
> you cannot read the characters in the file created?

All I meant by that was that I create a one-line csv file of the format:
"last","first","cell","home","work","email"

When I read it into and out of Excel, the file structure remains exactly.
By that, I'm assuming that is the "standard csv format".
I repeat that I assume that is the standard csv format because Excel is the
standard program that is set to read/write csv files (at least that's what
Microsoft Office seems to set as the default application for csv files on
my American standard system).

So, assuming Microsoft Excel is the de-facto csv standard reader; and
noting that Excel has no problem reading in my one-line csv file and
outputting the exact same format file, I made the assmption that this is
the de-facto csv syntax.

Now, trying the same input output (actually import export) test with
Microsoft Outlook gets us a multiline file that bears no resemblence
structurally to that of the input file. Many fields are added. Field names
are added. The one-line file turns into a multi-line file. etc.

My question was whether there was a way to make Microsoft Outlook export
the same file it imported much like Microsoft Excel seems to write the same
format file it read in.

I hope it's clearer now as to the question.
The answer isn't so clear since some people said they could do it and
others said they couldn't (I'm in the couldn't do it crowd myself).

Tony Susa