Well,
Just finished reinstalling and reconfiguring windows on my x64 box and all
seems to be working now. But I do have a few questions.

I have gone around to all my computers on my network except the x64 box and
disabled the computer browsing service. My question is should I have this
service enabled on more then one computer, for redundancy (for example if I
have to take down my x64 box for maintenance). How many computers should I
have the browsing service enabled on?

Slice

"Chuck" wrote:

> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:57:01 -0800, "Slice" <Slice@discussions.microsoft.com>
> wrote:
>
> >Also is there any way to make my x64 box the preferred master browser?
> >
> >That way I could run the computer browser service on all the computers so if
> >my x64 box goes down browsing services will still function when the x64 box
> >is down but they will always default to using the x64 box as the master
> >browser when it is present or when it comes back on-line.
> >
> >Slice
> >
> >Whould this do what i am discribing?
> >http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kba...erBrowser.html
>
> Read my article, and my explanation above.
> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...lways-see.html
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
> My email is AT DOT
> actual address pchuck mvps org.
>

What you propose on your web site doesn’t really give any one clear answer.
The way I interpret what was said on your website with regards to a workgroup
environment is that you should only have 2 computers running the computer
browser service so that you have a master browser and a backup browser,
therefore providing redundancy in the even that one of the 2 computers
running the computer browser service goes down. However as I under stand it,
you admit on your website that this type of configuration isn’t always full
proof with regards to maintaining a workgroup environment with only one
master browser when computers are being turned on and off. I want something
that is full proof. That is why I referenced the link in my last post and
asked if that would force a master browser election and grant the computer
with it enabled master browser status, regardless of weather other computers
in the workgroup are running the computer browser service and acting as the
master browser or not. From what I can gather, this registry entry would
control who will actually be the master browser in the even of an election,
and would even force an election that the computer with the entry would
automatically win when it detects that it is not currently the master browser
for the workgroup. If this is so then I could enable this registry key on my
x64 box so that it will always be the master browser when it is connected to
the network(aka when it has network connectivity and is turned on). Does this
registry key do what I am describing or am I mistaken?

Slice

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:57:04 -0800, "Slice" <Slice@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:

>
>
>"Chuck" wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:57:01 -0800, "Slice" <Slice@discussions.microsoft.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Also is there any way to make my x64 box the preferred master browser?
>> >
>> >That way I could run the computer browser service on all the computers so if
>> >my x64 box goes down browsing services will still function when the x64 box
>> >is down but they will always default to using the x64 box as the master
>> >browser when it is present or when it comes back on-line.
>> >
>> >Slice
>> >
>> >Whould this do what i am discribing?
>> >http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kba...erBrowser.html
>>
>> Read my article, and my explanation above.
>> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...lways-see.html
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
>> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
>> My email is AT DOT
>> actual address pchuck mvps org.
>>
>
>What you propose on your web site doesn’t really give any one clear answer.
>The way I interpret what was said on your website with regards to a workgroup
>environment is that you should only have 2 computers running the computer
>browser service so that you have a master browser and a backup browser,
>therefore providing redundancy in the even that one of the 2 computers
>running the computer browser service goes down. However as I under stand it,
>you admit on your website that this type of configuration isn’t always full
>proof with regards to maintaining a workgroup environment with only one
>master browser when computers are being turned on and off. I want something
>that is full proof. That is why I referenced the link in my last post and
>asked if that would force a master browser election and grant the computer
>with it enabled master browser status, regardless of weather other computers
>in the workgroup are running the computer browser service and acting as the
>master browser or not. From what I can gather, this registry entry would
>control who will actually be the master browser in the even of an election,
>and would even force an election that the computer with the entry would
>automatically win when it detects that it is not currently the master browser
>for the workgroup. If this is so then I could enable this registry key on my
>x64 box so that it will always be the master browser when it is connected to
>the network(aka when it has network connectivity and is turned on). Does this
>registry key do what I am describing or am I mistaken?
>
>Slice

Slice,

You're getting the picture. A master browser election is a peer-peer process.
Without a universal authority (in a domain, the domain controller), you'll not
have a fool proof process. That's one reason why using Network Neighborhood on
a wireless LAN will be unreliable - with servers (wireless computers) moving in
and out of range (joining and unjoining from the workgroup) - you'll be
constantly getting either browser conflicts or no browser.

From
<http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kbase/WindowsTips/WindowsNT/RegistryTips/Network/PreferredMasterBrowser.html>
If no other condition prevents it, the preferred master browser will always win
the election.

You can designate a preferred master browser, if you wish. And as long as that
one computer stays online you'll be OK. If it drops offline, and another
browser elects itself the new master browser, you'll have a segmented workgroup,
with 2 master browsers.

Or, you can make just one computer a browser. And, as long as that one computer
stays on and online WRT the other computers, you'll be OK. If that one computer
drops offline for any reason, the other computers will have no browsing
services. That's why Microsoft recommends at least 2 browsers for the first 32
computers in a LAN segment, and an additional browser for each additional 32.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 19:57:04 -0800, "Slice" <Slice@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:

>
>
>"Chuck" wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 16:57:01 -0800, "Slice" <Slice@discussions.microsoft.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Also is there any way to make my x64 box the preferred master browser?
>> >
>> >That way I could run the computer browser service on all the computers so if
>> >my x64 box goes down browsing services will still function when the x64 box
>> >is down but they will always default to using the x64 box as the master
>> >browser when it is present or when it comes back on-line.
>> >
>> >Slice
>> >
>> >Whould this do what i am discribing?
>> >http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kba...erBrowser.html
>>
>> Read my article, and my explanation above.
>> <http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/04/nt-browser-or-why-cant-i-always-see.html>
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2005/0...lways-see.html
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
>> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
>> My email is AT DOT
>> actual address pchuck mvps org.
>>
>
>What you propose on your web site doesn’t really give any one clear answer.
>The way I interpret what was said on your website with regards to a workgroup
>environment is that you should only have 2 computers running the computer
>browser service so that you have a master browser and a backup browser,
>therefore providing redundancy in the even that one of the 2 computers
>running the computer browser service goes down. However as I under stand it,
>you admit on your website that this type of configuration isn’t always full
>proof with regards to maintaining a workgroup environment with only one
>master browser when computers are being turned on and off. I want something
>that is full proof. That is why I referenced the link in my last post and
>asked if that would force a master browser election and grant the computer
>with it enabled master browser status, regardless of weather other computers
>in the workgroup are running the computer browser service and acting as the
>master browser or not. From what I can gather, this registry entry would
>control who will actually be the master browser in the even of an election,
>and would even force an election that the computer with the entry would
>automatically win when it detects that it is not currently the master browser
>for the workgroup. If this is so then I could enable this registry key on my
>x64 box so that it will always be the master browser when it is connected to
>the network(aka when it has network connectivity and is turned on). Does this
>registry key do what I am describing or am I mistaken?
>
>Slice

Slice,

You're getting the picture. A master browser election is a peer-peer process.
Without a universal authority (in a domain, the domain controller), you'll not
have a fool proof process. That's one reason why using Network Neighborhood on
a wireless LAN will be unreliable - with servers (wireless computers) moving in
and out of range (joining and unjoining from the workgroup) - you'll be
constantly getting either browser conflicts or no browser.

From
<http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kbase/WindowsTips/WindowsNT/RegistryTips/Network/PreferredMasterBrowser.html>
If no other condition prevents it, the preferred master browser will always win
the election.

You can designate a preferred master browser, if you wish. And as long as that
one computer stays online you'll be OK. If it drops offline, and another
browser elects itself the new master browser, you'll have a segmented workgroup,
with 2 master browsers.

Or, you can make just one computer a browser. And, as long as that one computer
stays on and online WRT the other computers, you'll be OK. If that one computer
drops offline for any reason, the other computers will have no browsing
services. That's why Microsoft recommends at least 2 browsers for the first 32
computers in a LAN segment, and an additional browser for each additional 32.

Whether being designated the preferred master browser will mean that computer
automatically stops any other computer running as the master browser is open to
interpretation. There will certainly be latency when a master browser election
is needed. The most comprehensive reference is the Microsoft white paper "MS
Windows NT Browser", as referenced by my article.
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/arc.../ntbrowse.mspx

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

"Chuck" wrote:
> Slice,
>
> You're getting the picture. A master browser election is a peer-peer process.
> Without a universal authority (in a domain, the domain controller), you'll not
> have a fool proof process. That's one reason why using Network Neighborhood on
> a wireless LAN will be unreliable - with servers (wireless computers) moving in
> and out of range (joining and unjoining from the workgroup) - you'll be
> constantly getting either browser conflicts or no browser.
>
> From
> <http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kbase/WindowsTips/WindowsNT/RegistryTips/Network/PreferredMasterBrowser.html>
> If no other condition prevents it, the preferred master browser will always win
> the election.
>
> You can designate a preferred master browser, if you wish. And as long as that
> one computer stays online you'll be OK. If it drops offline, and another
> browser elects itself the new master browser, you'll have a segmented workgroup,
> with 2 master browsers.
>
> Or, you can make just one computer a browser. And, as long as that one computer
> stays on and online WRT the other computers, you'll be OK. If that one computer
> drops offline for any reason, the other computers will have no browsing
> services. That's why Microsoft recommends at least 2 browsers for the first 32
> computers in a LAN segment, and an additional browser for each additional 32.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
> My email is AT DOT
> actual address pchuck mvps org.

So setting the “IsDomainMaster� switch to yes will not force master browser
status?

Here is an example of what I think would happen if I enabled this registry
switch on my x64 box. Please correct me if this is not correct.

Background Info:
I have five computers on a network. All five are in the same workgroup and
all five are running the computer browsing service, however only my x64 box
has the “IsDomainMaster� registry switch enabled.

Which of these two scenarios would take place in the event of the
failure/shutdown/network disconnect of the x64 box?

Scenario 1:
Now for some reason my x64 box goes down. A master browser election is
initiated between the remaining computers (because they are all running the
computer browser service) and a new master browser is elected. Now, my x64
box comes back online and converses with the network. After it discovers that
there is currently a different computer acting as the master browser, it
forces an election (which it will win due to its priority status) to
reestablish its position as the master browser, therefore stripping the
master browser status from the other computer which was elected to act as the
master browser in its stead.

Scenario 2:
Now for some reason my x64 box goes down. A master browser election is
initiated between the remaining computers (because they are all running the
computer browser service) and a new master browser is elected. Now, my x64
box comes back online and converses with the network. It automatically
reestablish its position as the master browser, however it does not strip the
computer that is currently acting as master browser in its stead of its
master browser status, therefore creating a segmented network with two master
browsers.

Which of these two scenarios would hold true given the background information?

Thanks,
Slice

>

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:42:02 -0800, "Slice" <Slice@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:

>"Chuck" wrote:
>> Slice,
>>
>> You're getting the picture. A master browser election is a peer-peer process.
>> Without a universal authority (in a domain, the domain controller), you'll not
>> have a fool proof process. That's one reason why using Network Neighborhood on
>> a wireless LAN will be unreliable - with servers (wireless computers) moving in
>> and out of range (joining and unjoining from the workgroup) - you'll be
>> constantly getting either browser conflicts or no browser.
>>
>> From
>> <http://www.windowsnetworking.com/kbase/WindowsTips/WindowsNT/RegistryTips/Network/PreferredMasterBrowser.html>
>> If no other condition prevents it, the preferred master browser will always win
>> the election.
>>
>> You can designate a preferred master browser, if you wish. And as long as that
>> one computer stays online you'll be OK. If it drops offline, and another
>> browser elects itself the new master browser, you'll have a segmented workgroup,
>> with 2 master browsers.
>>
>> Or, you can make just one computer a browser. And, as long as that one computer
>> stays on and online WRT the other computers, you'll be OK. If that one computer
>> drops offline for any reason, the other computers will have no browsing
>> services. That's why Microsoft recommends at least 2 browsers for the first 32
>> computers in a LAN segment, and an additional browser for each additional 32.
>>
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
>> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
>> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
>> My email is AT DOT
>> actual address pchuck mvps org.
>
>So setting the “IsDomainMaster” switch to yes will not force master browser
>status?
>
>Here is an example of what I think would happen if I enabled this registry
>switch on my x64 box. Please correct me if this is not correct.
>
>Background Info:
>I have five computers on a network. All five are in the same workgroup and
>all five are running the computer browsing service, however only my x64 box
>has the “IsDomainMaster” registry switch enabled.
>
>Which of these two scenarios would take place in the event of the
>failure/shutdown/network disconnect of the x64 box?
>
>Scenario 1:
>Now for some reason my x64 box goes down. A master browser election is
>initiated between the remaining computers (because they are all running the
>computer browser service) and a new master browser is elected. Now, my x64
>box comes back online and converses with the network. After it discovers that
>there is currently a different computer acting as the master browser, it
>forces an election (which it will win due to its priority status) to
>reestablish its position as the master browser, therefore stripping the
>master browser status from the other computer which was elected to act as the
>master browser in its stead.
>
>Scenario 2:
>Now for some reason my x64 box goes down. A master browser election is
>initiated between the remaining computers (because they are all running the
>computer browser service) and a new master browser is elected. Now, my x64
>box comes back online and converses with the network. It automatically
>reestablish its position as the master browser, however it does not strip the
>computer that is currently acting as master browser in its stead of its
>master browser status, therefore creating a segmented network with two master
>browsers.
>
>Which of these two scenarios would hold true given the background information?

The question here is how your x64 box gets disconnected then reconnected. If
the preferred master browser is powered off before reconnection, and powered
back on after reconnection, when it starts up it will initialise properly, and
will send out the election datagrams when the browser service starts.

If you simply remove the network cable while the master browser is active, it
will continue on its own segment. If it stays offline (disconnected) long
enough, another browser may elect itself as the new master browser. If you
simply reconnect the master browser, without resetting it properly (restarting
the browser service), it may never have a reason to force an election.

If a master browser election does get forced, it may not be done immediately.
Until the election is held, you will have a segmented workgroup.

Server administrators are taught that, if a server is running as a browser, and
you ever take it offline, always power it down before reconnecting it to the
network. If you don't, it may continue to think it's the master browser, and
having reconnected to the network without a power up sequence, will not
immediately change that status.

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.

Ok, that answered my question. So I should have two of the five computers
(preferably hardwired desktops) on my network run the computer browser
service (this is what you advised earlier right). That way I will have a
backup in the event that the master browser (x64 box) goes down, right?

Thanks for all the help,
Slice

P.S. What factor decides which of the two computers running the browser
service becomes the master browser (anything in particular)? Will the other
automatically become known as the back up browser to the master browser? Is
there anything in particular I have to do to ensure that the master browser
detects/knows the other computer running the browser service is a backup, or
vise versa (any thing I have to do to ensure the backup knows that it is the
backup to the master rather then a master itself).

On Thu, 17 Nov 2005 01:18:18 -0800, "Slice" <Slice@discussions.microsoft.com>
wrote:

>Ok, that answered my question. So I should have two of the five computers
>(preferably hardwired desktops) on my network run the computer browser
>service (this is what you advised earlier right). That way I will have a
>backup in the event that the master browser (x64 box) goes down, right?
>
>Thanks for all the help,
>Slice
>
>P.S. What factor decides which of the two computers running the browser
>service becomes the master browser (anything in particular)? Will the other
>automatically become known as the back up browser to the master browser? Is
>there anything in particular I have to do to ensure that the master browser
>detects/knows the other computer running the browser service is a backup, or
>vise versa (any thing I have to do to ensure the backup knows that it is the
>backup to the master rather then a master itself).

The general advice is to stop and disable the browser service, on all computers
that you don't want as browsers. Then shut down all computers. Start up the
computer you want to be the master browser first, followed by the backup
browser. Then start up the non-browser computers. Or you can play with the
flags, shut down and disable the service as necessary, and wait for the browsers
to realise that they need an election.

That's the interesting thing about the whole process. It's a peer-peer process,
with each browser managing itself until the election is held and completed.

The election criteria, for each browser, is a bit wise addition of a bunch of
flags, one of which is preferred master browser. You need to look at a table
entitled "Election Criterion", in the white paper, as the table itself can't be
copied here very well:
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>

--
Cheers,
Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck mvps org.