Morten Skarstad wrote:
> It is still better than the C:\ flat directory structure of pre-95 Windows.
> Except that in english (and probably other) versions of Windows "Program
> files" includes a whitespace in the directory name.</offtopic>
> Personally I prefer to direct them to "D:\Program files".

Hi Morten,

I agree. Prior to Windows 95, Windows 2.1 and 3.1 (if I remember
correctly the numbers) were a mess. Even with Windows 95 & Win98, there
wasn't the concept of a separate data hierarchy from the documentation
hierarchy. Then, when the latest incarnation of 2K/NT/XP-based Windows
software arose, the separation of data from program files became
accepted but Microsoft made such a mess of both directories that I
still use the well organized system I learned off the Internet.

C:\My Archivers (for PGP, PDF, ZIP, RAR, COA32, INCTRL5, etc.)
C:\My Browsers (for Firefox, Netscape, etc.)
C:\My Calendars (for TaskMaster, CalendarManger, etc.)
C:\My Databases (for map programs, address book managers, etc.)
C:\My Editors (for picture editors, video editors, etc.)
C:\My Finances (for Quicken, TurboTax, TaxCut, etc.)
C:\My Games (for games)
C:\My Hardware (for dvd burners, telephony SKYPE, etc.)
C:\My ISP (for NetZero, SBCGlobal, VPN, etc.)
etc.

And, that having been said, I agree that saving these important
programs onto a separate partition is also commonplace practice.

Likewise, it goes without saying too much that the DATA files for each
of these applications goes into the same directory tree in C:\My Data.
For example, PGP keys would go in C:\My Data\My Archivers\PGP Data;
browser bookmarks would go in C:\My Data\My Browsers\Firefox Data, etc.

To those others who say you can't organize your PC by task, well, I
can't say much to them as they wouldn't even understand the point.

Respectfully yours,
Susan

I think one could debate the merits and faults of almost any organization of
programs and data till the cows come home. To my mind, I'd first like to see
everyone who uses a pc at least have some basic "plan" rather than what I do
see which is everything almost everywhere. Cluttered desktop, cluttered
root of C: and data files of all sorts scattered almost anywhere else, e.g.
sub-folders of apps etc. etc. My experience also leads me to believe that
the vast majority of users never ever even think of "backup" even when they
have the means (e.g. burner) or if they do, they have no idea of what to
back up or where to find it, e.g. so long as "Open" in the app works, they
don't care.

"Susan Sharm" <susanshaarm@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1131602645.509461.288770@g14g2000cwa.googlegr oups.com...
> Morten Skarstad wrote:
>> It is still better than the C:\ flat directory structure of pre-95
>> Windows.
>> Except that in english (and probably other) versions of Windows "Program
>> files" includes a whitespace in the directory name.</offtopic>
>> Personally I prefer to direct them to "D:\Program files".
>
> Hi Morten,
>
> I agree. Prior to Windows 95, Windows 2.1 and 3.1 (if I remember
> correctly the numbers) were a mess. Even with Windows 95 & Win98, there
> wasn't the concept of a separate data hierarchy from the documentation
> hierarchy. Then, when the latest incarnation of 2K/NT/XP-based Windows
> software arose, the separation of data from program files became
> accepted but Microsoft made such a mess of both directories that I
> still use the well organized system I learned off the Internet.
>
> C:\My Archivers (for PGP, PDF, ZIP, RAR, COA32, INCTRL5, etc.)
> C:\My Browsers (for Firefox, Netscape, etc.)
> C:\My Calendars (for TaskMaster, CalendarManger, etc.)
> C:\My Databases (for map programs, address book managers, etc.)
> C:\My Editors (for picture editors, video editors, etc.)
> C:\My Finances (for Quicken, TurboTax, TaxCut, etc.)
> C:\My Games (for games)
> C:\My Hardware (for dvd burners, telephony SKYPE, etc.)
> C:\My ISP (for NetZero, SBCGlobal, VPN, etc.)
> etc.
>
> And, that having been said, I agree that saving these important
> programs onto a separate partition is also commonplace practice.
>
> Likewise, it goes without saying too much that the DATA files for each
> of these applications goes into the same directory tree in C:\My Data.
> For example, PGP keys would go in C:\My Data\My Archivers\PGP Data;
> browser bookmarks would go in C:\My Data\My Browsers\Firefox Data, etc.
>
> To those others who say you can't organize your PC by task, well, I
> can't say much to them as they wouldn't even understand the point.
>
> Respectfully yours,
> Susan
>

pjp wrote:
> I think one could debate the merits and faults of almost any organization
> I'd first like to see everyone who uses a pc at least have some basic "plan"

Hi PJP,

I agree.
So others can benefit from what I've practiced for a decade, here is
the two-step "plan" I offer the masses for PC organizational strategy:

1. Determine an organizational strategy you are comfortable with!
- For example, organize all programs by task as shown below
2. Then, apply that organizational strategy to the FIVE key areas:
- Applications (e.g., your program files)
- Application data (e.g., your settings & personal files)
- Application shortcuts (e.g., your start menu)
- Application installers (e.g., your downloaded initial installers &
updates)
- Send-to menu

It matters not what organizational strategy we choose; I merely offer
one which has been in use for more than a decade and which has served
me well (see prior posts). The point is you always know, even before
you save or install any application, exactly where every application
belongs, e.g.,
C:\My Archivers\PDF Writers\PrimoPDF
C:\My Browsers\Firefox
C:\My Calendars\Meeting Maker
C:\My Databases\Maps\MetroGuide USA
C:\My Editors\Text Editors\Lemmy
C:\My Finances\Tax Programs\TurboTax2006
C:\My Games\Flight Simulators\MSFS2006
C:\My Hardware\DVD\Rippers\DVD Shrink
C:\My ISP\Dialup\NetZero
... blah blah blah ...

While the benefits of the mindless approach of piling all applications
into a single flat directory are debatable, notice the huge benefits of
this simple two-step organizational process:
- Backing up data is nearly trivial (back up C:\My Data & you're done!)
- Recovering all programs from a system crash is nearly trivial
- Managing & utilizing multiple machines is extremely consistent
- Locating & updating applications and files is tremendously logical
- Migrating to new systems over time reinforces & strengthens your
original strategy

Again, I agree with all of you that having an organizational strategy
(any organization you are comfortable with) is the right approach ...
all I do above that concept is to offer one that has been working for
me for more than a decade on Windows-based PCs (all operating systems
up to and prior to Windows XP).

I hope this posts continues to add to our general knowledge,
Susan

On 9 Nov 2005 23:40:49 -0800, Susan Sharm wrote:

> Again, I agree with all of you that having an organizational strategy
> (any organization you are comfortable with) is the right approach ...

I think consistency is the key. Once you have developed your own plan,
stick to it. When performing system maintenance, check for "loose ends"
(that can and do happen when you're in a hurry) and move them into your
chosen folder structure.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

Sharon F wrote:
> consistency is the key.
> Once you have developed your own plan, stick to it
> When performing system maintenance, check for "loose ends"
> and move them into your chosen folder structure.

Hi Sharon,

I agree. What I do for consistency is I have a set of CDROMs & DVDs
backed up that I call my "blueprints". I use these whenever I set up a
new PC.

Over the years, I learned to give up on trying to reign in the YAFFO
Microsoft Mess. In the olden days, I used to change the registry keys
for the common files dir, program files dir, data directory, etc. Too
many programs had hard-coded paths that didn't use system variables.

Lately, I simply maintain a CDROM of a consistent yet EMPTY set of
hierarchies for each of the FIVE key areas:
- Application installations, i.e., C:\My
Programs\{Archivers,Browsers,Calendars, etc.}
- Application data, i.e., C:\My Data\My
Programs\{Archivers,Browsers,Calendars, etc.}
- Application menus, i.e., Start->My
Programs\{{Archivers,Browsers,Calendars, etc.}
- Application installers, i.e., C:\My
Installers\{Archivers,Browsers,Calendars, etc.}
- Send-To menu, i.e., Send To -> {Archivers,Browsers,Calendars, etc.}

I call this framework CD of blank blueprint files my YAHOO CD (yet
another hierarchical organizational option).

My use model, when I set up a new system, is so simple and yet so
intuitive. All I do is grab my YAHOO CD and copy the file structure
over. This has worked time and time again. Nothing needs to be changed
in the original system (I gave up long ago using PC Magazine's Change
of Address (coa32.exe) to try to fix the default YAFFO Microsoft Mess).

Then, from that point forward:
- I save all downloaded installers where they belong (e.g., c:\my
installers\...)

During installation:
- I install all programs where they belong (e.g., c:\my programs\...)
- I set up the program default data locations (e.g., c:\my data\...)

Immediately after installation:
- I move the original shortcut to where it belongs (e.g., Start->my
programs\...)
- I copy a shortcut to the SendTo menu (e.g., Send To -> my
programs\...)

Voila! Instantly organized Windows PC!
Everything has a place to go BEFORE I even start the installation of
anything!
All data is kept in a single hierarchy, in a known logical hierarchy.
All menus are in the same known logical hierarchy.
All installers are kept in the same known logical hierarchy.

What could be simpler or easier?
All it takes is the upfront work of deciding upon the organizational
tree (which I've already done for every single type of program I've
ever encountered).

I write this lengthy reply because I think, as you appear to believe
also, that many millions would benefit from this simple organizational
YAHOO CD idea. And I wish to help them. And to improve my own YAHOO CD
blueprints!

Together, we welcome polite discussion that increases our knowledge as
a whole,
Susan

Susan Sharm <susanshaarm@yahoo.com> wrote

> To those others who say you can't organize your PC by task,

No one ever did anything like that.

> well, I can't say much to them as they wouldn't even understand the point.

You didnt understand the point they were making.

On 10 Nov 2005 09:02:55 -0800, Susan Sharm wrote:

> I write this lengthy reply because I think, as you appear to believe
> also, that many millions would benefit from this simple organizational
> YAHOO CD idea. And I wish to help them. And to improve my own YAHOO CD
> blueprints!
>
> Together, we welcome polite discussion that increases our knowledge as
> a whole,

Although I have no idea how "yahoo blueprints" came into the discussion
(this post is showing up in many, many newsgroups) -- yours is a good plan.

It illustrates another important point in file management which is to keep
the structure simple. Simple structure = regular backups. Complicated
structure = "oops, I haven't done a backup in 3 months."

While my plan is different (partition images and data backups), it
accomplishes the same things. It's easy to perform on a regular basis and
it's easy recovery if things go pear shaped. Neither plan is "better" -
they are both good tools that accommodate individual computing styles and
usage patterns.

Interesting topic - a favorite of mine. Thanks for letting me join the
discussion.

--
Sharon F
MS-MVP ~ Windows Shell/User

Sharon F wrote:
> An important point in file management is to keep the structure simple.
> Simple structure = regular backups.
> Complicated structure = "oops, I haven't done a backup in 3 months."

Hi Sharon,

Thank you for offering your insight. This is a favorite topic of mine
also!
I agree, the simpler and more consistent, the better.

My backups are trivial.
1. If I wish to backup all my important data, I back up C:\My Data.
2. If I wish to backup all my application installers, I back up C:\My
Installers.

My backup strategy is that simple.
Susan

> My backups are trivial.
> I back up C:\My Data.
> I back up C:\My Installers.

Also, when I migrate to a new machine (which I do often), setup is just
as simple.

First, I grab my archived blueprint CDROM containing empty directory
trees.
Then, I grab my archived DVD backups of "My Data" & "My Installers".

I copy the "My Programs" blueprint empty directory tree to the new PC.
I copy the Start-Menu blueprint of archived shortcuts to the new PC.
I copy the "My Data" backup to the new PC.

Then, one by one, I install the applications from my archived "My
Installers" DVD (i.e., archivers, browsers, calendars, databases,
editors, finances, games, hardware, isps, mailers, etc.) into the now
existing blueprint of empty directories.

Voila! The new PC is all set up the same way the old PC was!
It's so simple & intuitive, I don't even have to create new shortcuts!

I hope my posts add to the general knowledge level & abilities of the
community,
Susan

Susan Sharm wrote:
> Then, one by one, I install the applications from my archived "My
> Installers" DVD (i.e., archivers, browsers, calendars, databases,
> editors, finances, games, hardware, isps, mailers, etc.) into the now
> existing blueprint of empty directories.

One more point.

The organization of the application installation hierarchy needs to be
as hierarchical as it needs to be (as compared to the typical
"C:\Program Files" which is too flat and almost wholly unorganized
except by the inconsistent whims of each of the individual installation
program marketing groups).

However, in my use model, there is a rule that there shall NEVER be an
application installed directly into the C:\My Programs hierarchy. That
is, a flat file structure is strictly forbidden in my use model.
Everything belongs at least one subdirectory below the top level of the
My Programs hierarchy.

For example, for a simple set of applications such as "C:\My
Programs\My Mailers", one might expect to see only a few installed
applications only two levels deep, e.g.,
C:\My Programs\My Mailers\Blat
C:\My Programs\My Mailers\Eudora
C:\My Programs\My Mailers\Pegasus
C:\My Programs\My Mailers\Thunderbird
etc.

Likewise, I promote a simple two-level hierarchy for NNTP news readers,
e.g.,
C:\My Programs\My Readers\40tude Dialog
C:\My Programs\My Readers\Free Agent
C:\My Programs\My Readers\NewsXpress
C:\My Programs\My Readers\Xnews
etc.

In stark contrast, some hierarchies require three or more levels, e.g.,

C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Cleaners\Crap Cleaner
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Cleaners\Clean Up!
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Cleaners\Easy Cleaner
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Cleaners\Internet Eraser
etc.

C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Firewalls\Filseclab
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Firewalls\Kerio
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Firewalls\Sygate
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Firewalls\Zone Alarm
etc.

C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Malware\Ad-Aware
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Malware\HijackThis
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Malware\Spybot Search & Destroy
C:\My Programs\My Vaccines\My Malware\Spyware Blaster
etc.

The main point is the rule that nothing ever gets installed flat into
the application hierarchy by name; everything is installed at least two
levels deep by task and subtask as needed.

I hope this post, like all my posts, add to the general knowledge of
the community,
Susan