I have already heard that.The first connection ...It protects everyone on the
first connction as GOOD as on people's second connection...

And will stop here ,this conversation can be endless.
No matter what you will say or anyone says,I go on using Windows Firewall.


Panda_man
--
Let's beat malware black and blue
Panda TruPrevent - the most intelligent technology to combat unknown malware
http://www.pandasoftware.com
http://www.microsoft.com/protect





"Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:

> WF exists primarily to protect an XP computer on its first outing to the WWW
> and Windows Update.. any more than that would inevitably invoke lawsuits
> from the legal dept's of Symantec, Network Associates and others.. :-)
>
> --
> Mike Hall
> MVP - Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "Panda_man" <Pandaman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:B98D2716-F5E0-4CF6-86DF-FDA5CB9CF5A3@microsoft.com...
> >I agree with most of the things in your post but will disagree with another
> > .Find them mixed with your words:
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >> I promised myself a while back not to go on another anti-Microsoft rant,
> >> that I would write calmly about any goofs they make. It has been a hard
> >> promise to keep at times. And now, I must break that promise. If I don't
> >> rant about this, I will burst at the seams.
> >>
> >> The function of a software firewall is simple. It allows the user to
> >> control
> >> the computer's access to other computers. To do that, it blocks attempts
> >> to
> >> send unauthorized data out over a network, as well as the attempts of
> >> other
> >> computers to send data to the protected computer. A proper firewall
> >> allows
> >> data into or out of the computer, only when the user gives the firewall
> >> permission to do so. I think most people will agree that this is an
> >> accurate
> >> description of the proper function of a software firewall.
> >
> > Panda_man >> You description is very good.
> >
> >
> >> So I am left to wonder if the Microsoft programmers who designed the
> >> Windows
> >> Firewall have lost their freakin minds. While the Windows Firewall will
> >> block network access like any other firewall, the settings which
> >> determine
> >> whether or not an attempt to access the network is permitted is stored in
> >> the registry. Any piece of software is allowed to edit that part of the
> >> registry and give itself permission to send or receive data over the
> >> network.
> >>
> >> There are several viruses, worms and spyware programs that edit the
> >> registry
> >> settings for the Windows Firewall. Even if the user discovers a virus
> >> infection and cleans it successfully, that computer can be reinfected at
> >> any
> >> time, if the virus edited the firewall settings.
> >
> >
> > Panda_man >> Let me just remind you that that's why we use antivirus
> > software ...
> > Always up-to-date and scanning everything.I also have added TruPrevent to
> > monitor all suspicous activity.
> >
> >> Many network worms can
> >> infect a computer if it discovers certain unsecured network ports. It
> >> happened to me once, when I turned off my firewall and forgot to turn it
> >> back on.
> >
> > Panda_man >> What are we talking about ...You forgot ,it is wrong made by
> > human.All wrongs that have changed the history have been made by humans...
> >
> >
> >> Changes to a firewall's settings should be possible only through the
> >> firewall program's interface. Those changes should be saved into an
> >> encrypted file, which cannot be altered by any other program. Those
> >> settings
> >> should not EVER be written to the registry, where they can be altered by
> >> any
> >> other program running on the PC. It takes only the smallest shred of
> >> common
> >> sense to realize this.
> >>
> >
> > Panda_man >> Agree .
> >
> >
> >> Where was the common sense when they were creating the Windows Firewall?
> >> This is like hiring security guards to keep gate crashers away from a
> >> party
> >> but allowing the guests to write their own invitations.
> >>
> >> But wait, there's more!
> >>
> >> Someone discovered recently that the Windows Firewall interface won't
> >> even
> >> tell the user about an opened port, if the registry entry granting it
> >> permission has a malformed name. Not only can a malicious programmer give
> >> his evil creation permission to bypass the firewall, he can hide the fact
> >> that he's done it!
> >>
> >
> >
> > And just to tell you that Windows Firewall is NOT a firewall like any
> > other
> > firewall.
> > All other firewalls have exceptions for IPs ,all other have control of all
> > programs and IPs for Inconing ,Outgoing and Incoming and Outgoing
> > connection.
> >
> > Windows Firewall is much more like a technology for blocking intruders
> > (and
> > for blocking programs used from intruders)
> > It has no exceptions for IP ,not control of the outgoing traffic.But it is
> > capable to block attack(a programs tries to get into a computer ,it
> > blocks) .
> > And that's why people with Windows Firewall can use it to chat with text.
> > Even though the hasn't put Windows Messenger (example) as an exception
> > they
> > still chat because the chat is not like Peer to Peer ,it passes a
> > server.But
> > when a file is needed to be sent ,the other pc connect to mine(p2p) and
> > this
> > is an intrusion and blocked from WF.
> >
> > I personally have tested WF for blocking intrusion attempts and it
> > successfully did it.
> >
> >
> > As a man from Microsoft said some years ago in a radio program WF is made
> > especially for Home User that really don't know What do to.A Software
> > firewall (SF) ask that a program XXX.YYY wants access .What to do
> > .They
> > have never heard of that software and click Access ok.( By the way ...they
> > think ...I use program ZZZ.YYY and if I block XXX.YYY something may go
> > wrong.I'd rather allow)
> >
> > His words were that he is very surpised when he personally saw guys being
> > asked from a SF what to do and all they do is : ACCESS OK , ACCESS OK ,
> > ACCESS OK....
> >
> > Although we both may know what to do ,the so called Home user will not
> > know
> > what to do.He/She goes to work ,has a family ,children,home and although
> > he/she uses the computer everyday ,they don't know about "virus" ,
> > "intruder
> > " ,"suspicious software".....
> >
> > Microsoft made WF (and especially with Don't allow exceptions) to protect
> > even the most stupid person.And I think you'd better start encouringing
> > home
> > users use Windows Firewall much more than any other SF.
> >
> > Thank you .
> >
> >
> >
> > Panda_man
> > --
> > Let's beat malware black and blue
> > Panda TruPrevent - the most intelligent technology to combat unknown
> > malware
>
>
>

I use it myself..


--
Mike Hall
MVP - Windows Shell/User


"Panda_man" <Pandaman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7DA42E8F-715B-4D1D-BD40-83B8CBE13B1B@microsoft.com...
>I have already heard that.The first connection ...It protects everyone on
>the
> first connction as GOOD as on people's second connection...
>
> And will stop here ,this conversation can be endless.
> No matter what you will say or anyone says,I go on using Windows Firewall.
>
>
> Panda_man
> --
> Let's beat malware black and blue
> Panda TruPrevent - the most intelligent technology to combat unknown
> malware
> http://www.pandasoftware.com
> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>
>
>
>
>
> "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
>
>> WF exists primarily to protect an XP computer on its first outing to the
>> WWW
>> and Windows Update.. any more than that would inevitably invoke lawsuits
>> from the legal dept's of Symantec, Network Associates and others.. :-)
>>
>> --
>> Mike Hall
>> MVP - Windows Shell/User
>>
>>
>> "Panda_man" <Pandaman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:B98D2716-F5E0-4CF6-86DF-FDA5CB9CF5A3@microsoft.com...
>> >I agree with most of the things in your post but will disagree with
>> >another
>> > .Find them mixed with your words:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >> I promised myself a while back not to go on another anti-Microsoft
>> >> rant,
>> >> that I would write calmly about any goofs they make. It has been a
>> >> hard
>> >> promise to keep at times. And now, I must break that promise. If I
>> >> don't
>> >> rant about this, I will burst at the seams.
>> >>
>> >> The function of a software firewall is simple. It allows the user to
>> >> control
>> >> the computer's access to other computers. To do that, it blocks
>> >> attempts
>> >> to
>> >> send unauthorized data out over a network, as well as the attempts of
>> >> other
>> >> computers to send data to the protected computer. A proper firewall
>> >> allows
>> >> data into or out of the computer, only when the user gives the
>> >> firewall
>> >> permission to do so. I think most people will agree that this is an
>> >> accurate
>> >> description of the proper function of a software firewall.
>> >
>> > Panda_man >> You description is very good.
>> >
>> >
>> >> So I am left to wonder if the Microsoft programmers who designed the
>> >> Windows
>> >> Firewall have lost their freakin minds. While the Windows Firewall
>> >> will
>> >> block network access like any other firewall, the settings which
>> >> determine
>> >> whether or not an attempt to access the network is permitted is stored
>> >> in
>> >> the registry. Any piece of software is allowed to edit that part of
>> >> the
>> >> registry and give itself permission to send or receive data over the
>> >> network.
>> >>
>> >> There are several viruses, worms and spyware programs that edit the
>> >> registry
>> >> settings for the Windows Firewall. Even if the user discovers a virus
>> >> infection and cleans it successfully, that computer can be reinfected
>> >> at
>> >> any
>> >> time, if the virus edited the firewall settings.
>> >
>> >
>> > Panda_man >> Let me just remind you that that's why we use antivirus
>> > software ...
>> > Always up-to-date and scanning everything.I also have added TruPrevent
>> > to
>> > monitor all suspicous activity.
>> >
>> >> Many network worms can
>> >> infect a computer if it discovers certain unsecured network ports. It
>> >> happened to me once, when I turned off my firewall and forgot to turn
>> >> it
>> >> back on.
>> >
>> > Panda_man >> What are we talking about ...You forgot ,it is wrong made
>> > by
>> > human.All wrongs that have changed the history have been made by
>> > humans...
>> >
>> >
>> >> Changes to a firewall's settings should be possible only through the
>> >> firewall program's interface. Those changes should be saved into an
>> >> encrypted file, which cannot be altered by any other program. Those
>> >> settings
>> >> should not EVER be written to the registry, where they can be altered
>> >> by
>> >> any
>> >> other program running on the PC. It takes only the smallest shred of
>> >> common
>> >> sense to realize this.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Panda_man >> Agree .
>> >
>> >
>> >> Where was the common sense when they were creating the Windows
>> >> Firewall?
>> >> This is like hiring security guards to keep gate crashers away from a
>> >> party
>> >> but allowing the guests to write their own invitations.
>> >>
>> >> But wait, there's more!
>> >>
>> >> Someone discovered recently that the Windows Firewall interface won't
>> >> even
>> >> tell the user about an opened port, if the registry entry granting it
>> >> permission has a malformed name. Not only can a malicious programmer
>> >> give
>> >> his evil creation permission to bypass the firewall, he can hide the
>> >> fact
>> >> that he's done it!
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > And just to tell you that Windows Firewall is NOT a firewall like any
>> > other
>> > firewall.
>> > All other firewalls have exceptions for IPs ,all other have control of
>> > all
>> > programs and IPs for Inconing ,Outgoing and Incoming and Outgoing
>> > connection.
>> >
>> > Windows Firewall is much more like a technology for blocking intruders
>> > (and
>> > for blocking programs used from intruders)
>> > It has no exceptions for IP ,not control of the outgoing traffic.But it
>> > is
>> > capable to block attack(a programs tries to get into a computer ,it
>> > blocks) .
>> > And that's why people with Windows Firewall can use it to chat with
>> > text.
>> > Even though the hasn't put Windows Messenger (example) as an exception
>> > they
>> > still chat because the chat is not like Peer to Peer ,it passes a
>> > server.But
>> > when a file is needed to be sent ,the other pc connect to mine(p2p)
>> > and
>> > this
>> > is an intrusion and blocked from WF.
>> >
>> > I personally have tested WF for blocking intrusion attempts and it
>> > successfully did it.
>> >
>> >
>> > As a man from Microsoft said some years ago in a radio program WF is
>> > made
>> > especially for Home User that really don't know What do to.A Software
>> > firewall (SF) ask that a program XXX.YYY wants access .What to do
>> > .They
>> > have never heard of that software and click Access ok.( By the way
>> > ...they
>> > think ...I use program ZZZ.YYY and if I block XXX.YYY something may go
>> > wrong.I'd rather allow)
>> >
>> > His words were that he is very surpised when he personally saw guys
>> > being
>> > asked from a SF what to do and all they do is : ACCESS OK , ACCESS OK
>> > ,
>> > ACCESS OK....
>> >
>> > Although we both may know what to do ,the so called Home user will not
>> > know
>> > what to do.He/She goes to work ,has a family ,children,home and
>> > although
>> > he/she uses the computer everyday ,they don't know about "virus" ,
>> > "intruder
>> > " ,"suspicious software".....
>> >
>> > Microsoft made WF (and especially with Don't allow exceptions) to
>> > protect
>> > even the most stupid person.And I think you'd better start encouringing
>> > home
>> > users use Windows Firewall much more than any other SF.
>> >
>> > Thank you .
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Panda_man
>> > --
>> > Let's beat malware black and blue
>> > Panda TruPrevent - the most intelligent technology to combat unknown
>> > malware
>>
>>
>>

In article <7DA42E8F-715B-4D1D-BD40-83B8CBE13B1B@microsoft.com>,
Pandaman@discussions.microsoft.com says...
> I have already heard that.The first connection ...It protects everyone on the
> first connction as GOOD as on people's second connection...
>
> And will stop here ,this conversation can be endless.
> No matter what you will say or anyone says,I go on using Windows Firewall.

I've seen AOL applications reconfigure the WF without the user knowing,
seen other apps ask the user if they could reconfigure it, which didn't
work when using ZAP or non WF apps.

I disable the Windows Firewall Service on every Domain computer and
every computer in my home. It's not proven to be effective when malware
is on the computer, and not needed when a person has the barrier (NAT
device) method.

--

spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me

Mike,
I'm just curious. Do you rely on WF as your only firewall ?

"Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" <mikehalll@mvps.org> wrote in message
news:eVUSZrNBGHA.2788@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>I use it myself..
>
>
> --
> Mike Hall
> MVP - Windows Shell/User
>
>
> "Panda_man" <Pandaman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:7DA42E8F-715B-4D1D-BD40-83B8CBE13B1B@microsoft.com...
>>I have already heard that.The first connection ...It protects everyone on
>>the
>> first connction as GOOD as on people's second connection...
>>
>> And will stop here ,this conversation can be endless.
>> No matter what you will say or anyone says,I go on using Windows
>> Firewall.
>>
>>
>> Panda_man
>> --
>> Let's beat malware black and blue
>> Panda TruPrevent - the most intelligent technology to combat unknown
>> malware
>> http://www.pandasoftware.com
>> http://www.microsoft.com/protect
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Mike Hall (MS-MVP)" wrote:
>>
>>> WF exists primarily to protect an XP computer on its first outing to the
>>> WWW
>>> and Windows Update.. any more than that would inevitably invoke lawsuits
>>> from the legal dept's of Symantec, Network Associates and others.. :-)
>>>
>>> --
>>> Mike Hall
>>> MVP - Windows Shell/User
>>>
>>>
>>> "Panda_man" <Pandaman@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>>> news:B98D2716-F5E0-4CF6-86DF-FDA5CB9CF5A3@microsoft.com...
>>> >I agree with most of the things in your post but will disagree with
>>> >another
>>> > .Find them mixed with your words:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> I promised myself a while back not to go on another anti-Microsoft
>>> >> rant,
>>> >> that I would write calmly about any goofs they make. It has been a
>>> >> hard
>>> >> promise to keep at times. And now, I must break that promise. If I
>>> >> don't
>>> >> rant about this, I will burst at the seams.
>>> >>
>>> >> The function of a software firewall is simple. It allows the user to
>>> >> control
>>> >> the computer's access to other computers. To do that, it blocks
>>> >> attempts
>>> >> to
>>> >> send unauthorized data out over a network, as well as the attempts of
>>> >> other
>>> >> computers to send data to the protected computer. A proper firewall
>>> >> allows
>>> >> data into or out of the computer, only when the user gives the
>>> >> firewall
>>> >> permission to do so. I think most people will agree that this is an
>>> >> accurate
>>> >> description of the proper function of a software firewall.
>>> >
>>> > Panda_man >> You description is very good.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> So I am left to wonder if the Microsoft programmers who designed the
>>> >> Windows
>>> >> Firewall have lost their freakin minds. While the Windows Firewall
>>> >> will
>>> >> block network access like any other firewall, the settings which
>>> >> determine
>>> >> whether or not an attempt to access the network is permitted is
>>> >> stored in
>>> >> the registry. Any piece of software is allowed to edit that part of
>>> >> the
>>> >> registry and give itself permission to send or receive data over the
>>> >> network.
>>> >>
>>> >> There are several viruses, worms and spyware programs that edit the
>>> >> registry
>>> >> settings for the Windows Firewall. Even if the user discovers a virus
>>> >> infection and cleans it successfully, that computer can be reinfected
>>> >> at
>>> >> any
>>> >> time, if the virus edited the firewall settings.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Panda_man >> Let me just remind you that that's why we use antivirus
>>> > software ...
>>> > Always up-to-date and scanning everything.I also have added TruPrevent
>>> > to
>>> > monitor all suspicous activity.
>>> >
>>> >> Many network worms can
>>> >> infect a computer if it discovers certain unsecured network ports. It
>>> >> happened to me once, when I turned off my firewall and forgot to turn
>>> >> it
>>> >> back on.
>>> >
>>> > Panda_man >> What are we talking about ...You forgot ,it is wrong made
>>> > by
>>> > human.All wrongs that have changed the history have been made by
>>> > humans...
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Changes to a firewall's settings should be possible only through the
>>> >> firewall program's interface. Those changes should be saved into an
>>> >> encrypted file, which cannot be altered by any other program. Those
>>> >> settings
>>> >> should not EVER be written to the registry, where they can be altered
>>> >> by
>>> >> any
>>> >> other program running on the PC. It takes only the smallest shred of
>>> >> common
>>> >> sense to realize this.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Panda_man >> Agree .
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Where was the common sense when they were creating the Windows
>>> >> Firewall?
>>> >> This is like hiring security guards to keep gate crashers away from a
>>> >> party
>>> >> but allowing the guests to write their own invitations.
>>> >>
>>> >> But wait, there's more!
>>> >>
>>> >> Someone discovered recently that the Windows Firewall interface won't
>>> >> even
>>> >> tell the user about an opened port, if the registry entry granting it
>>> >> permission has a malformed name. Not only can a malicious programmer
>>> >> give
>>> >> his evil creation permission to bypass the firewall, he can hide the
>>> >> fact
>>> >> that he's done it!
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > And just to tell you that Windows Firewall is NOT a firewall like any
>>> > other
>>> > firewall.
>>> > All other firewalls have exceptions for IPs ,all other have control of
>>> > all
>>> > programs and IPs for Inconing ,Outgoing and Incoming and Outgoing
>>> > connection.
>>> >
>>> > Windows Firewall is much more like a technology for blocking
>>> > intruders
>>> > (and
>>> > for blocking programs used from intruders)
>>> > It has no exceptions for IP ,not control of the outgoing traffic.But
>>> > it is
>>> > capable to block attack(a programs tries to get into a computer ,it
>>> > blocks) .
>>> > And that's why people with Windows Firewall can use it to chat with
>>> > text.
>>> > Even though the hasn't put Windows Messenger (example) as an exception
>>> > they
>>> > still chat because the chat is not like Peer to Peer ,it passes a
>>> > server.But
>>> > when a file is needed to be sent ,the other pc connect to mine(p2p)
>>> > and
>>> > this
>>> > is an intrusion and blocked from WF.
>>> >
>>> > I personally have tested WF for blocking intrusion attempts and it
>>> > successfully did it.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > As a man from Microsoft said some years ago in a radio program WF is
>>> > made
>>> > especially for Home User that really don't know What do to.A Software
>>> > firewall (SF) ask that a program XXX.YYY wants access .What to do
>>> > .They
>>> > have never heard of that software and click Access ok.( By the way
>>> > ...they
>>> > think ...I use program ZZZ.YYY and if I block XXX.YYY something may go
>>> > wrong.I'd rather allow)
>>> >
>>> > His words were that he is very surpised when he personally saw guys
>>> > being
>>> > asked from a SF what to do and all they do is : ACCESS OK , ACCESS OK
>>> > ,
>>> > ACCESS OK....
>>> >
>>> > Although we both may know what to do ,the so called Home user will not
>>> > know
>>> > what to do.He/She goes to work ,has a family ,children,home and
>>> > although
>>> > he/she uses the computer everyday ,they don't know about "virus" ,
>>> > "intruder
>>> > " ,"suspicious software".....
>>> >
>>> > Microsoft made WF (and especially with Don't allow exceptions) to
>>> > protect
>>> > even the most stupid person.And I think you'd better start
>>> > encouringing
>>> > home
>>> > users use Windows Firewall much more than any other SF.
>>> >
>>> > Thank you .
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Panda_man
>>> > --
>>> > Let's beat malware black and blue
>>> > Panda TruPrevent - the most intelligent technology to combat unknown
>>> > malware
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>